Helping Kids Through Grief: Bridget Sakr on Loss & Healing

Bridget Sakr is a prominent community figure and Director of Heartfelt, an organization dedicated to supporting families experiencing loss and trauma. With a professional background in finance and insurance, Bridget transitioned into grief support work following personal tragedy that deeply impacted her life. Her experience and empathy have made her a beacon of support, not only within her community but also on a global scale, as she continues to guide and accompany those navigating grief.

Key Takeaways:

• Permission to Grieve Openly: Emphasising openness in conversations about grief grants others permission to share and heal.
• Impact of Faith: Faith can provide a foundational source of comfort and hope during the grieving process.
• Creating Community: Building a supportive community around grieving individuals helps mitigate isolation and loneliness.
• Children and Grief: Engaging children with experiences and conversations about their lost loved ones aids their healing journey.
• Continuous Presence: Lost loved ones remain part of ongoing life, and their memories and impact continue to provide strength and connection.

Notable Quotes:

1. "Experiences are what I feel helped Michael; talking about those experiences. And he will always speak about her because it's not foreign." - Bridget Sakr
2. "How do you get over someone that you love? How do you do that? You never get over them. They come with you wherever you go." - Bridget Sakr
3. "We grieve alone, but we heal together. You heal in community." - Bridget Sakr
4. "Sometimes the hardest part for people is their gravesite, people dragging them. No, no, no, no, don't do that. Let them have a bit of time." - Monsignor Shora
5. "Faith doesn't make things easy, but it makes them possible." - Bridget Sakr

Resources:

• Heartfelt: heartfelt.community

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Transcript

0:00:00 - (Debbie Draybi): Warning. This episode contains confronting topics and issues. If you need help, please contact Beyond Blue. For more information and resources, please Visit our website, HSHL.org au children respond better to experiences.

0:00:18 - (Bridget Sakr): Don't ask them how they are. You know, if we were driving somewhere, there was a skateboard park we used to go to all the time. Michael, do you remember when we used to, you know, skateboard here with Ronique? And he'd go, oh, yeah, Mum, we used to do this. And so those experiences are what I feel helped Michael talking about those experiences. And he will always speak about her because it's not foreign.

0:00:42 - (Debbie Draybi): Welcome to Finding Sanctuary. Our shared conversations into how we think and feel and how we find peace and comfort in daily life. We get together with experts to chat about all things mental health, getting insights and understanding on the struggles of life. Welcome back, everyone, for another episode of Finding Sanctuary. I'm really excited Mons is back. I've got Monsignor Shore with me. I feel like it's been ages, Mons.

0:01:09 - (Monsignor Shora): It's been a while. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a while.

0:01:10 - (Debbie Draybi): I better be on my best behavior and not say anything inappropriate, otherwise I'll be censored. And today it's part of our series around having difficult conversations. And we've been exploring, sitting in the discomfort of topics that are difficult to talk about. And today we're talking about having conversations around grief and loss, particularly with our children. And I think there's no better person to be having this conversation with Brigid Saker, who's a member of our community, also the director of Heartfelt.

0:01:40 - (Debbie Draybi): She's done an incredible job in our community and globally, really, around working with people, accompanying them in their grief and really journeying with them. Bridget, it's so wonderful to have you here. Thank you, J. Such a pleasure.

0:01:53 - (Bridget Sakr): Thank you for having me. It's great to have Mons here too. So thank you.

0:01:56 - (Monsignor Shora): Good to see you.

0:01:57 - (Debbie Draybi): I didn't realise I needed to bring you here to get Mons back, so I know it's been wonderful that we come together like this and Bridget, give us a bit of a context of what led you to this work and you accompanying people in their grief. And I know it's come from your own lived experience and I wondered if you don't mind sharing a bit of that.

0:02:14 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, absolutely, Deb. Not by choice. None of us know what's gonna happen on an ordinary day. Tragically, obviously, I lost Veronique. I didn't lose her, actually. She's in the eternal life with Jesus and her three cousins, Anthony, Angelina and Sienna. There were three families that were very impacted on this very day. Seven children were hit getting an ice cream. You know, four were killed and one seriously injured, and there were two others that were also impacted.

0:02:42 - (Bridget Sakr): Your life changes when something like that happens. You don't plan. I mean, in life, we don't plan. We think we're planning. You know, we're all planning for building our future. And a lot of it's material. You don't really realise how much in the Australian culture, you're raised to work hard and build a home and look at retirement and you have got your superannuation, but. And after such a loss of your own flesh and blood, and, you know, it happened just before COVID so the isolation of not only the loss of your loved one, but then being isolated, not able to be around people was horrific. And I thought to myself, you know, the beauty was that we were accompanied, our families were accompanied by griefcare, which is part of Catholic cemeteries in Crematoria, a particular lady called Patricia Thomas, she accompanied our families. But with me, she sort of said to me, bridget, you are very good with people.

0:03:32 - (Bridget Sakr): You know, why don't you bring people together that have lost someone and you could do it online? And I thought, what a way to connect people who've lost someone. I have the lived experience. I'm not a professional counsellor. I just. I live the pain every day and that's what I could. I know that I could share with others. So we embarked on Heartfelt. Heartfelt stands for families experiencing loss and trauma. And my husband Craig, came up with the name, Felt.

0:03:57 - (Bridget Sakr): We embarked on that and we started online every Monday night, Catholic cemeteries in Crematoria, Grief Care would do it with me, we'd do it together. And my life completely changed. Even though I'm still in the banking world and I'm, you know, a mother and I would do many things. I. What I feel like my vocation and the calling from God was to really touch the hearts of the wounded. And that's what I feel that I. That I've done and I'm doing. And I want to really, you know, focus on making sure that. That those who have lost someone don't feel like they're on their own. And there are a lot of people suffering silence. I mean, our culture, we have community.

0:04:33 - (Bridget Sakr): Lebanese people are always together when, you know, people rally around you. A lot of people do. Don't have anyone. And they're the people that I seem to find myself always sort of sitting next to or being by their side and I think you meet so many people, you know, they're the blessings in the hidden, where you feel like God allows you to meet people that really need. Need that accompaniment. It's very, very powerful.

0:04:59 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. Just as I'm hearing you, you know, the worst tragedy possible, losing your own child, recognising your strengths and the things that you're naturally good at, bringing people together and you're good with people and how you've just been able to engage, you know, such a difficult, traumatic experience in such a positive, meaningful way for others. I think that's incredible.

0:05:20 - (Bridget Sakr): This tragedy, I feel, has happened for the greater good. It doesn't really make sense when I say that, but I feel the greater purpose, despite the brokenness, is beyond just the loss of Veronique. And, you know, it's to actually be able to help others. And I love being with people. I actually love people. I love purpose and passion. So I feel like I can help. It will help my healing if I can accompany others. And the amount of people that gravitate to someone when they've lost someone or creating the conversation. Like, the hard thing is when someone says, how many children do you have?

0:05:59 - (Bridget Sakr): That's when you start to choke and go, okay, I am a mother of two, but how do I describe. That's very hard. But that opens up so much conversation. I always say, I have two children, one in heaven and one on earth. And I share my story because I believe, you know, Veronique is still with me. I believe in life after death. How can I not speak about someone that our shared love was so great.

0:06:22 - (Debbie Draybi): And yeah, yeah, I think that's incredible. You invite her into conversations. You don't exclude her, and you give permission. I think you, when we had the pre meeting, you gave it a beautiful example of how that allowed other people to talk about their own loss and perhaps mention family members that they've excluded in the past because of their sadness.

0:06:44 - (Bridget Sakr): And yeah, we do live in a society where grief is pushed under the carpet. People don't talk about their loved one. It's not normal like to talk. And when, you know, when you cry, you say, sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to. If you laugh, no one says sorry. It's the society that we live in. So when you speak about your loved one, you are giving permission for the other person to open up. And I have a lot of conversations with people just in the most rarest places, in the most, you know, occasions where you. You could be doing anything and you just talk about, you know, I talk about Veronique. And they open up and the opening up really allows somebody to continue.

0:07:22 - (Bridget Sakr): Like, you know, sometimes they've never spoken about someone they've lost and you can see the pain in their eyes. But you're continuing the bond with your loved one when you speak about them. And that is a very healthy way to deal with grief.

0:07:34 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, I know. I've spoken to even some of our listeners who've given me feedback around. You know, you talk about things that we're scared to talk about in public because it's a bit taboo or the perception is it'll make other people uncomfortable. But what I'm hearing from you, actually, it doesn't. It gives people permission and it opens up this whole conversation. It might be a bit uncomfortable, but it's also freeing.

0:08:01 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah. Look, only recently I went to a wedding and had got my makeup done and she asked me how many kids I have now. I used to ask people that all the time that I'm hesitant to ask now because I'm thinking, am I, am I creating some emotions in someone? But I told her and her eyes swelled up and she said, I lost my brother at 14 and I was 10.

0:08:26 - (Bridget Sakr): And I could see her eyes swell up. And she said, my dad said, counselling's not good because you can't help grief. She was really struggling with believing a life after death. And there's another lady next to me, an older lady, she goes, look, I lost my three month old. And we just sat there just speaking about our loved ones. And I just think that's so helpful when people feel like they're acknowledging their loved one and you see there that shared love that they had. And I think, you know, time doesn't heal grief.

0:08:59 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah.

0:09:00 - (Bridget Sakr): It actually creates even a more awareness of the importance of, of the fact that your loved one's no longer with you. You know, the awareness grows. And also that shared depth of love, really, you can feel how much it's missing. So it doesn't. Time doesn't heal. Doesn't heal grief. There are so many triggers every day, every minute of the day, there's a trigger.

0:09:23 - (Debbie Draybi): I think that's a really important one, that message, even for some of our listeners, around the expectation that over time you get over it or it's not something that you deal with, it's lifelong.

0:09:35 - (Bridget Sakr): How do you get over someone that you love? How do you do that? You never get over them. They come with you wherever you go. You take them. And that's what Heartfelt's about. It's about creating the space, a trusted space, to give people permission to speak about their loved one. We have a lot of Christians and non Christians come, and Roman Catholics and Marianites. It's beautiful. But we're honouring our loved ones. We've asked people to bring a photo of their loved one. We've got a beautiful couple of hearts. They're gonna pin it on their wall.

0:10:02 - (Bridget Sakr): And, you know, when I talk about Veronique, I'm proud to be talking about her, even though I'm in pain. Does that make sense? It's a. Yeah, it's. And.

0:10:09 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah. Yeah.

0:10:11 - (Debbie Draybi): Monsignor, as you're listening, what's coming up for you? I know that you've obviously worked with families in their own grief. What's coming up for you as you're. As you're listening? And I know you've also worked with Brigid and had a beautiful connection as well.

0:10:23 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, yeah. We go a long way back. We really got a long way back. Yeah. And something I learned pretty early on, because I went through grief at 19 myself. Well, actually, I lost my godmother when I was 12 and then lost my mum at 19. So always as a priest, I knew what I needed when I was 19 and 12. And it wasn't for someone just to tell me cliches, it was someone to give me permission to say what I felt, you know.

0:10:51 - (Monsignor Shora): And so I always, when I do meet with people in those situations I come, I don't try to give them words or anything that tries to shut down what they might be feeling. Even if they're feeling anger or frost, you know, upset or hurt, I let them let it out. I think that's important, that they can express what they're feeling and that you care for them and love them there, you know, and you show that compassion where they were, where they are.

0:11:19 - (Monsignor Shora): And then once I've found, when you always do that afterwards, once they've let that out and they feel safe with you, then they will start to come to some answers. Yeah, I think that's very important. And sometimes as a community, we sometimes don't know how to walk with people in grief and to just let them. We think we've got to give an answer straight away. The answer is your being present with them. That's going to be the best answer. You know, you're Sharing, you know. Yeah.

0:11:47 - (Monsignor Shora): I love the felt. Families experiencing loss and trauma, and I think that's the first thing they need for you to hear what's happening in their heart. And it's wounded, it's torn, it's broken.

0:11:59 - (Debbie Draybi): And just really giving people permission to feel what they feel and allowing that, because we do. There's a lot of denial that goes on, isn't there, with that expectation that other people don't want to see that or we see that.

0:12:10 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah.

0:12:10 - (Monsignor Shora): Or think it's not good for them. No, don't let. No, no, you got to let it. You know, sometimes the hardest part for people is their gravesite, Let them have a bit of time. And then I'll just put my hand on them. I'll let them. Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah. This is very hard, you know, and then just bit by bit, say, all right, you know, what about if we start gently to start to come back not. But just ripping. And sometimes people think they're doing good.

0:12:38 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah. Always saying the right things.

0:12:40 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, yeah.

0:12:41 - (Bridget Sakr): They just want to be heard. People just want to be heard. They just want to be acknowledged, you.

0:12:45 - (Monsignor Shora): Know, that acknowledgement, you know, and it does need to come out. And even with kids, it needs to have a situation where a family where they lost a child and there's two other siblings and they're young, parents were getting worried. The other two children are remembering and talking. They're getting upset. Got a bit of guidance and said, no, let them talk out. Yeah, you're thinking of your brother. Yeah, you are, you know, and to let him say that and then to give them a hug, to let them know, oh, that's there. I feel that, too. And it's all right to feel that so that it comes out, doesn't go back and stay in an unhealthy way.

0:13:24 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, that's right. I mean, so Michael, my son, he's had a lot of grief in his life. He's had. He lost his sister, and then he lost a very close great uncle, and then he lost his father. So within three years, he had a lot of loss. By the time he's 17, it was significant a lot. And I was very fortunate. I mean, our faith is what gets you up because it gives you hope. We have hope, but sometimes you need the tools to be able to cope with those moments where you don't know how to handle a situation.

0:13:53 - (Bridget Sakr): And I quickly thought, I need to get a psychologist for Michael, you know, he was only 13 and a half and we found someone by the time he was 14. We tried a couple and his psychologist said to me, you know, young kids, because as a parent, you're grieving, so how much do you have to be able to nurture your son or your child, your daughter or your children who are also grieving because you can barely get up yourself, let alone give?

0:14:21 - (Bridget Sakr): And he said to me, you know, children respond better to experiences, so don't ask them how they are, they're not going to tell you how. I mean, even someone asked me how I am. It's like, well, how do you think I'm feeling? Like, hello. But you know, if we were driving somewhere, there was a skateboard park we used to go to all the time. Mark, would you remember when we used to, you know, skateboard here with Ronique? And he'd go, oh yeah, Mum, we used to do this. Or she used to love, you know, running, competing on a run with him. So, you know, I'd run up the hill with him and I'd go, look, Veronique used to beat you, Michael, come on, come on. Like, I try. And so those experiences are what I feel helped Michael talking about those experiences.

0:15:00 - (Bridget Sakr): He would speak about her. In our household, we speak about Veronique all the time. So it's not foreign. And he will always speak about her because it's not foreign. But even over and above that, they go to school, these young children who have lost someone and the teachers don't know how to, you know, I mean, especially with trauma, I'm not saying death, no matter what, is, but trauma does impact the brain a lot in a different way.

0:15:24 - (Bridget Sakr): So their learning capacity, their ability to concentrate, Michael sleeping, it all got affected. And so the psychologist gave me a couple of two minute videos to give to the teachers, to all his teachers, so they know how to sort of what's happening with Michael because of the traumatic grief that he's going through. So that's the other hard part. You're grieving yourself, but you need to create space for your child who's also going through their own emotions and they're normally the forgotten grievers. People seem to forget about the siblings and they're focused on the parent. But grief is grief, everybody.

0:15:59 - (Bridget Sakr): It's unique, it's individual. There's no timeline because all that manifests internally. That's why we have a lot of depression and suicide and drug abuse and alcoholism and domestic violence, because people don't speak about what's. And, you know, if you've got a heart condition, you speak about it. But if you've got something going on in your mind or there's some mental health, you hide it.

0:16:24 - (Debbie Draybi): That's been a big one in this podcast around breaking down some of the stigma and taboo that comes with mental health. Like you said, with physical health, we don't question it, we talk about it openly. There isn't that same perception or negativity around that. Whereas with mental health there's always this, especially in traditional cultures like ours, this negativity and stigma that continues to perpetuate. And you're right, it just fester because people don't really feel like they have permission to express emotional distress in ways. Because culturally it's not even accepted.

0:16:59 - (Bridget Sakr): No.

0:17:00 - (Monsignor Shora): And sometimes when it's children's grief, in our older. The older generation, they used to put the children alongside because the parents or they were gone to their cousins or their. You know, they didn't realise the kids are feeling something, but they're distracted, I suppose. The parents grief is so visible and the kids grief's inside.

0:17:22 - (Bridget Sakr): It's invisible, really.

0:17:23 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, it's invisible.

0:17:24 - (Bridget Sakr): That's why you've got this generation that comes through sometimes that's not dealt with. Yeah. So that's why my heartfelt. It's to change that stigma, you know, change the culture that we have to allow grief to. I mean, Jesus was so vulnerable when Lazarus died. He showed his emotions, he didn't hide. But I think that, you know, we do, as a society, hide and people don't know what to say. But like you said, Monsenhor, just. Even people would drop me a meal or let's go for a walk, or you just need to know that somebody's there and they're present and if you have that lived experience, it really helps.

0:18:01 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. And that's what I'm hearing, like, for our listeners. You know, if you know someone in grief who's lost someone or has a trauma, often there is this perception that you feel like they need space and you avoid them, and that's the last thing people need.

0:18:15 - (Bridget Sakr): That's true.

0:18:16 - (Debbie Draybi): You know, walk towards them, not away from them, and connect with them in ways that they're ready for. And it sounds like it's not about checking in about how they're feeling, it's sharing experiences with them and continuing the.

0:18:27 - (Bridget Sakr): Bond is really important because they're still with you. We're aware of faith. We believe in life after death. Life hasn't. It's not ended, it's just changed. And you have to Kind of rebirth, that whole way of thinking, we're all gonna journey on this path together and what more better than just holding one another? Only yesterday I was in a meeting at work and we've got three, four new people that have come on board and everyone's going around the table talking about how many kids they've got and their names. And for the first time, I sort of choked and I thought.

0:19:00 - (Bridget Sakr): And I said, look, I'm a mother of two. And I named them and I had to step out and go for a walk because it's hard. It's like. How do you describe that? So there are so many triggers when you're in grief. Like constant trigger that people are not aware of. You've just got to somehow, you know, recognise in our society that a lot of people that we walk with every day are triggered by something, triggered by a loss, triggered by some form of grief.

0:19:27 - (Debbie Draybi): In our last conversation, we talked a lot about when we're having difficult conversations, particularly giving feedback, uncomfortable topics, recognizing our triggers. I mean, what you've described there is. Sometimes you have triggers that you don't realise.

0:19:42 - (Bridget Sakr): I mean, there are a lot of times when people are having conversations and I could be with them and, oh, yeah, my daughter goes to Santa. And yeah, oh, what do I say here? My daughter went to Santa. You know, people talk about how many kids they've got and they talk and then they're talking about they've got girls and what they're doing and I can't converse anymore in those conversations. Yeah, and that's painful.

0:20:01 - (Bridget Sakr): That's a very painful thing. That's every day.

0:20:04 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah.

0:20:05 - (Bridget Sakr): But, you know, I feel like that's the cross I carry for the greater good and for the kingdom, they called.

0:20:11 - (Debbie Draybi): It for our listeners. They know about the kingdom.

0:20:14 - (Bridget Sakr): For the kingdom. So I'm doing it for the kingdom and I'm carrying this cross every day, going, God, give me the strength, because every day I need that strength to have purpose in pain. Gets me up and keeps me going.

0:20:29 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. Being able to really find meaning in things that are difficult to understand, and it's incredible strength.

0:20:36 - (Bridget Sakr): That's right. Making meaning in your grief journey. Yeah, it's very, very hard.

0:20:41 - (Debbie Draybi): So what do you do to look after yourself? Because what I'm hearing is it's intense work to support others in their grief, but also carry yours. What helps you to maintain and keep you doing the work that you're doing?

0:20:54 - (Bridget Sakr): I do a couple of days. My background's finance and insurance, so I'm still in that industry.

0:20:59 - (Debbie Draybi): And I feel that's part of your self care.

0:21:01 - (Bridget Sakr): Is it? I just want to know.

0:21:01 - (Debbie Draybi): I'm very curious about that because that brings me a lot of anxiety right now.

0:21:06 - (Bridget Sakr): That's very funny. It balances. Yeah, it's a balance. And I get dressed and I go in the city and I'm making decisions and I'm.

0:21:15 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, it's another space.

0:21:16 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're in a different role, your professional identity, reconnecting.

0:21:22 - (Bridget Sakr): I'm a professional and I'm known very well in the industry, in the finance, so I'm a very, you know, they know me as something very different and bringing those two worlds together. I've done a number of talks. I was bringing to National Women's Day, which I always talk about Our lady being my role model, but I take that to the finance sector, which very secular. So I try and bring both, but I do that.

0:21:41 - (Bridget Sakr): My prayer life is beautiful. I love my prayer life. I think that gives me balance. My husband would say I'm not balanced at all.

0:21:48 - (Debbie Draybi): Husband's in the room, listeners, just balanced.

0:21:52 - (Bridget Sakr): I go to the gym to do weights, but sometimes I fail in that area because I've got other things happening. But I try and go twice a week.

0:21:59 - (Debbie Draybi): Just don't take your son. No, my son dropped a weight on me this week.

0:22:06 - (Bridget Sakr): What else do I do?

0:22:06 - (Debbie Draybi): I don't.

0:22:07 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah.

0:22:07 - (Debbie Draybi): Thanks, James.

0:22:08 - (Bridget Sakr): I'm not sure if I am a balanced person, like by nature, that's the truth. But I do find that being in the corporate world and my prayer life, I can honestly say that even though I was a practising Catholic, I'd go to church, abstain from meat and do all the stuff that you do. As a practising Catholic, I don't know if my relationship with Christ was as deep as it is now because I don't fear death anymore.

0:22:33 - (Bridget Sakr): Like, it's not foreign to me. And I constantly think about what life is like after death and that yearning to one day hopefully see, you know, God. But Veronique, it changes the way I see the world. I look at it very differently. My perspective on life is very different.

0:22:49 - (Debbie Draybi): It sounds like your perspective on life and death has changed.

0:22:52 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, yeah, very much so. I have a great support network, you know, so I have a psychologist, the church community, my family, my husband, my son, like I said, grief care. You need your support network, you need that. Yeah. But I think my prayer life gives me a lot of energy. I'm so grateful for our faith. I mean, I say the bank of faith is paying its dividends. When you come from the finance.

0:23:18 - (Debbie Draybi): Says the finance person.

0:23:19 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, that's right. But if it wasn't for faith, then you can't buy faith off the shelf. You're not gonna go into Coles and go, I'm buy faith. Today it's years of formation and a lot of times, you know, you hear like, you know, people say the best thing a parent can give you is education, but really the best thing a parent can give you is your faith. Because nothing else is going to sustain you or carry you through life.

0:23:37 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. It's something that, you know, in your ministry, thinking about that with parents around, it's a gift they give to their kids.

0:23:46 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, it is. I remember one lady telling me when she lost her father suddenly and she had a young family and she was upset. She was ringing me. I rang her when I heard and she said, now I know why all those masses were for all that Sunday. It was to help me now for this. It was like grace that was just kicking in to keep her on her feet.

0:24:09 - (Bridget Sakr): So it's important that with our children that, that formation is really important.

0:24:13 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, it's like good exercise and good practice, you know. Yeah. When it does build up in your body, the mass grace builds up in your soul and your mind, your heart.

0:24:22 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, it's really foundational, isn't it? That's what I'm hearing from both of you around.

0:24:27 - (Monsignor Shora): I often hear people say, like when they are in grief or they've talked and people around said, what would we do if we didn't have our faith in these situation? Not that we get a black and white and easy ends of straight, but what meaning would we give to this, you know?

0:24:42 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, that's right. I mean, I did this podcast with James Valentine. It's like I went into this ABC studio, I thought, God, what am I doing here?

0:24:49 - (Debbie Draybi): I'm feeling really inadequate now.

0:24:51 - (Bridget Sakr): No, no, no, no. I'm saying it for a reason. So he's asking me all these questions. And then after the program, he started crying. Crying. I'm going, sorry, did I. He goes, I just wish I had what you had. I had. Wish I had that faith. Because I just believe that such and such, whoever you know, is gone. And I'm thinking, wow, like, you know, people, they envy even though they want to, but they just don't.

0:25:18 - (Debbie Draybi): And for our listeners, I often wonder, you know, people I've worked with in the past and conversations I've had with some listeners around struggling with their faith during grief and really questioning and particularly when, you know, anger is A big part of it. And just feeling that resentment and questioning God.

0:25:37 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah.

0:25:38 - (Debbie Draybi): For them, like what's something that you. What's helped you? Because I'm sure that that's happened to you as well. It happens to everyone in their faith journey. Really. Feeling abandoned by God and questioning the reasons. What's something that you think would help you and could help them in that journey? Yeah.

I can only share my experience and hope that that gives them something. Because if you really are angry or you, you know, my sister's very angry. Like as an example, I can't say anything where she starts to blame God. And even though we're raised the same way and our beliefs in the household were identical, she's completely taken a different path. But my brother in law sees the life I live and what I'm doing and I know that she looks at that even though she's deeply hurt and deeply angry.

0:27:20 - (Bridget Sakr): So all you can do is share. You can't do more.

0:27:23 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah.

0:27:23 - (Monsignor Shora): And also to let them express that anger and to recognize in that anger is still the hurt and the loss.

0:27:30 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah.

0:27:30 - (Monsignor Shora): And just I find if you can give that voice and then the more that that can sort of come out and if there can be some healing in through them sharing it and through our prayer for them that sometimes then that gift of faith gets absolutely. They can find a way to be unstuck, you know. Yeah.

0:27:49 - (Bridget Sakr): I mean heartfelt is, you know, once a month we're online. We used to be every week during COVID But we have a lady that comes on. She lost her son and daughter in law. And she said the other day in a chat, she's never said a word. I don't know what she looks like because you don't have to put the camera on, you know, Heartfelt has been the most rewarding thing for me to be with others and just hearing them share their story.

0:28:15 - (Bridget Sakr): She goes, it gives me comfort. And that, to me, is so rewarding. Like you said, just give people the space.

0:28:21 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:28:23 - (Debbie Draybi): And me and grief meant. I mean, you use the example of your sister, you know, you've dealt with it differently. It manifests in different ways for different people, depending on where they're at. Even though you've had the same upbringing and, you know, being exposed to the same ideas, but it lands differently.

0:28:39 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, it does, it does, yeah. I would just keep. I'll continue with the journey of trying to get out there and accompany as many people as I can. And we've got a number of people that are part of the Heartfelt team now. We've got a website. You know, we do weekly reflections and, you know, we have amazing prayer cards and all sorts of stuff on the website. We record bar, the breakout rooms, we have it on the website.

0:29:03 - (Bridget Sakr): So we're trying to tap into as many hearts as we can so that people don't feel like they're on their own in the journey.

0:29:09 - (Debbie Draybi): I think that's beautiful, that imagery of tapping people's hearts and really connecting with them. Particularly in our culture, where we often come together in the celebrations, in the happy times. If you see our weddings, it's a bit of a festival. And then even our funerals are big. But then after that, there's a bit of silence and the world goes on.

0:29:29 - (Bridget Sakr): The world goes on and you're left there going, oh, my Lord. Because it's surreal. Up until the funeral. Everyone's buzzing around you and you're trying to. And then you're just going, where to? From here alone? Your dinner table's different.

0:29:42 - (Monsignor Shora): That's the timer.

0:29:43 - (Bridget Sakr): Your drive to school's different.

0:29:44 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, Everything changes. Everything.

0:29:45 - (Bridget Sakr): Everything changes. Everything.

0:29:48 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. Being able to connect with people, really, in that journey, through all. Navigating all those changes, people yearn for.

0:29:55 - (Bridget Sakr): It, but they don't realise until someone. When you've gone through such grief, tragedy or even death, you don't go online and go, grief support or whatever. You're not in the frame of mind. Somebody has to go to you and say, look, I know something that might be able to help you. So most people come on Heartfelt have been introduced by someone else, not because, you know, they can do it themselves.

0:30:19 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. What I'm hearing is this. It's an incredible connector, like people in their pain coming together and really, we're not meant to do this alone. We're a collectivist culture and we're stronger when we're together.

0:30:34 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, it's true. You grieve alone, but you heal together. You heal in community.

0:30:41 - (Monsignor Shora): You do. True.

0:30:42 - (Debbie Draybi): And just as we're wrapping up, I wonder whether there's anything that you want to leave our listeners with, Any message that you want to.

0:30:48 - (Bridget Sakr): Yeah, look, I think the most important thing is, look, you know, if you do know someone who is in, who is struggling and has lost someone, just provide a bit of accompaniment. Doesn't have to be, you know, me that goes out there. But if you do know anyone, you know, just knock on the door, go for a walk with them, you know, let them know, don't leave them alone, because that's not the right thing. But if you do know someone and you think you know someone, Heartfelt can be of help, then please reach out and you can, you know, write to me and, you know, heartfelt.community

0:31:20 - (Bridget Sakr): grief is a very isolating place if. If it's allowed to be. I think as a society, it's our job to. Our role to. To make sure we connect.

0:31:30 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, yeah. And really work towards building community and break that isolation because people are.

0:31:37 - (Bridget Sakr): Break the culture. Break the culture.

0:31:40 - (Monsignor Shora): Nan, like, just to second Bridget's message for people out there. Yeah. Not to stay isolated and to try and reach out. And then people who notice others, you know, to knock on the door and be ready to listen. To be ready to listen, to receive. Meet people where they're at. You know, don't think they have. You don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to have any.

0:32:00 - (Bridget Sakr): And even when I go and accompany people, I don't tell them, like, they'll. They'll talk about how they're feeling. But I don't go saying, oh, yeah, I felt that way, or don't feel that way, don't do this. I just share my. My experience. Because even in your own grief, you can't be telling other people because your grief is so individual. So you've just got to preserve that for you.

0:32:20 - (Debbie Draybi): And again, it's about sharing experiences and how powerful that is rather than, you know, trying to name what their feelings are. It's about just being able to acknowledge what they've experienced and what it means.

0:32:30 - (Monsignor Shora): For them and that they're on a journey. Grief is a journey. There's stages of it. Yeah. And we try to meet them at the different stages.

0:32:38 - (Debbie Draybi): Well, thank you. We're going to put all those details in our show notes as well, and really appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability and for your leadership in this space.

0:32:47 - (Bridget Sakr): Thank you. Thank you for having me.

0:32:56 - (Debbie Draybi): I hope this episode has helped you find sanctuary in this exciting journey of life. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are found in in the podcast notes. If you need some assistance with any of the topics discussed in today's episode, then please Visit our website HSHL.org au if you have any thoughts, comments or ideas, please leave us a comment on Spotify. Alternatively, send us an email@adminshl.org

0:33:25 - (Debbie Draybi): au you& your mental health matters to us, and we hope you get one step closer in finding sanctuary. Bye for now.