NDIS Sibling Story: Lauren's Gift - Subdeacon Stefan Gerges

About the Guest:

Subdeacon Stefan is from Christ The Redeemer Maronite Catholic Parish, where he plays a vital role in spiritual guidance and support. He co-founded the business Lauren's Family with his wife Giselle, who has extensive experience as a support worker for the NDIS sector. Stefan is deeply inspired by his late sister, Lauren, who has had a profound impact on his life and vocation, fueling his passion for serving those with disabilities and fostering community support.

Key Takeaways:

• Transformative Inspiration: Stefan's journey through his sister's illness and eventual passing played a vital role in shaping his life values and his faith-driven vocation.
• Community and Support: The importance of community strength and support, particularly through challenging times, was strongly emphasized, illustrating how connections can provide solace and aid in grief.
• Non-Verbal Communication: Lauren's ability to connect with others without words underlined the power of non-verbal communication and emotional intelligence, contributing to the podcast's ongoing theme of connection beyond verbal language.
• Grief and Growth: The episode delves into the many facets of grief, highlighting that it manifests differently for everyone and discussing how Stefan’s family navigated the complex dimensions of mourning and acceptance.
• Spiritual Lessons: Insights were shared about how persons with disabilities, like Lauren, can serve as conduits of spiritual growth, inspiring others toward sainthood through witness and empathy.

Notable Quotes:

• "Love is beyond words and there is greater mysteries to life."
• "There is strength in love and power that comes through family."
• "Lauren was already a saint, and she's been given to us to make us into saints."
• "We have an experience that allows us to be stronger than you are."
• "Finding joy even in the little things—that's where Lauren was inspirational."

Resources:

• Lauren's Family: An initiative started by Subdeacon Stefan and his wife Giselle, dedicated to providing support services inspired by Lauren's legacy.

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Transcript

0:00:00 - (Natalie Moujalli): Hi, and welcome back to Finding Sanctuary. Today we're joined by sub Deacon Stefan. Welcome.

0:00:06 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Thank you. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be on.

0:00:09 - (Natalie Moujalli): And we've got our co host with us today, Joni Raad, which we've just sprung on her about 30 seconds ago. Thank you for joining us, Joni. Hi, everyone.

0:00:16 - (Jony Raad): Pleased to be here.

0:00:18 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Don't lie, Joni.

0:00:22 - (Natalie Moujalli): Today we're going to. For the sake of the podcast and time, I'm going to refer to you as Stephan, because today we have you in here in a different capacity, I think, than most people are used to seeing you in. And I'll kind of give our listeners a little bit of background as to how this happened. Stephan works at Hills Maronite Parish. So this is how our paths have crossed. But a few months ago, I received a message about a business that Stefan and his beautiful wife Giselle had started called Lauren's Family.

0:00:58 - (Natalie Moujalli): And it piqued my interest because I wanted to know who Lauren was and who Lauren was to you and your beautiful wife. So I guess I want to get straight into that and have a chat a little bit about why you started this journey and a little bit more about who you are and how your experience with your sister has formed your vocation.

0:01:28 - (Subdeacon Stefan): All right, this is going to be a long night. Okay. First and foremost, so Giselle and I, we started Lauren's Family because Giselle was a support worker for eight years. And it was interesting because Giselle was going through. So she studied counseling. She kind of. She didn't want to get into counseling. She went through a few different jobs and eventually landed in support working. No coincidence, because her patron saint is Mother Teresa. And just. Mother Teresa is just a G when it comes to this. Of course, for many years, I saw Giselle as she. As she worked with these clients, and she was just the most beautiful soul.

0:02:04 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And it's not very often, unfortunately, in the NDIS sector, they have somebody who actually has their heart in it as well. So I would look at Giselle after we got married and I'll say to her, you should start a company. But my language would be, you, you should start a company. I never really reflected on myself doing it as well. Giselle, in her beautiful humility, would always say, I don't want to get too big. I don't want to lose sight of what I'm doing. I'd rather just keep it hands on, private.

0:02:32 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So that was beautiful. But eventually three or four other people said the same thing to her eventually. And she came home one Day and said, I want to start it. So. Okay, no worries. I'm excited for you. But then she said, but you have to do it with me now. I'll be frank. I'd never worked in the sector, but the experience I had was with my sister Lauren. So I guess I sort of had an idea and out of the love of wife, I said, let's go.

0:02:58 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And the most beautiful thing is Giselle asked me to name the company and so I named it after Lauren. Hence Lauren's family. That you are indeed part of Lauren's family when we are serving you and serving your needs. So that's how we started the company.

0:03:13 - (Natalie Moujalli): That's beautiful.

0:03:14 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah, it's a wonderful little story. Thank God. Now it's a matter of who is Lauren, which I think is a very important question. So Lauren is my. My dearest sister who has passed on to her heavenly rewards. She passed on in the year 2018 in August. And Lauren was my youngest sister. And I remember when Lauren was born, I was very excited as a 10 year old. My other siblings, I love them to death, but we were in that really middle weird age difference where I wasn't old enough to really be a role model to them, but I wasn't young enough to really be their friend.

0:03:57 - (Subdeacon Stefan): That by the time they were experiencing things, my things were different. When Lauren was born, I was keen, I was like, yes, I get to be an older brother. And I remember very fondly, Mum one time brought Lauren when she was only a few months old to school. And I remember dragging all my friends in year four and saying to them.

0:04:16 - (Natalie Moujalli): My little sister, show and tell.

0:04:17 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Little bit of a side note, she has like the best name. Her name is Lauren Maurice Sturgis. Extended version. Lauren Mary Therese Joerges. She's like, she was destined for greatness from the get go, right? But around 11 months, I remember this quite visually as a, as a young lad. I don't know why I remember this, but I remember one time we were at Mass to St. John the Beloved, and afterwards overhearing my parents speaking as they put Lauren in the car and mum looked at dad and said, this girl isn't breathing properly. But she said in Arabic and my Arabic wasn't the best, so I just understood, she's not breathing properly. I was like, what the heck is going on?

0:04:57 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Being good parents, they don't really want to throw that burden on you too much.

0:05:01 - (Natalie Moujalli): I was shielding you a little bit.

0:05:03 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. As parents do especially. I was still really young it turned out Lauren was quite sick. And especially at that age, if you don't treat it properly and pick it up properly, it begins to have greater effects. And this disease, whatever it was, I've never asked Mum for the full details. I think for Mum was a very traumatic experience. But it started to affect Lauren mentally to the point where she was suffering from seizures and quite intense seizures. And the seizures, it was the first time I'd ever experienced seizures.

0:05:36 - (Subdeacon Stefan): You know how usually people, if they show it in TV shows or movies, it's this person that's just shaking on the ground rapidly. Lauren's seizures were scarier because they were silent. Literally no sign, no warning, no nothing. You just. You think everything's fine and then you turn around, look at Lauren and she's just completely blue in your face, and you're like, what the heck is going on? One of the moments that really struck me was one time we were coming back from school, Mum had picked us up and Mum said to me, please keep an eye on Lauren.

0:06:05 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And she said that to the rest of our siblings. Maybe around five minutes before we got home, all of us kind of just forgot that fact. And Mum turned around and saw Lauren just completely blew in the face. And it was for the first time I was really confronted with that kind of reality of things. So Lauren spent many, many years in the hospital, maybe when she was younger. The first couple years of her life was just purely in the hospital, but she was just an astounding inspiration to us all.

0:06:33 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Through that experience, I got to mature quickly. I had to look after Lauren at times and had to sacrifice maybe doing things that teenage would be able to do. I'd have to stay home, look after Lauren. But I never complained because Lauren and I had the greatest of bonds. Lauren couldn't talk, but she could just talk through her smile and talk through her eyes. And that, for me was just enough. And she was my best friend and I would speak to her all the time.

0:06:59 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Even when Giselle and I started dating, Giselle just immediately had the best connection with Lauren, like, ever. She sent me photos while I was at work and she said she has the cutest nose. And I'd be slightly pissed off because I'm just like, man, I want to be there with you too. Yeah, a bit of fomo, you know, but everybody loved Lauren. It was the most astounding thing. She couldn't talk, but just everyone loved her. I had one of my uncles from Lebanon who just had a great bond with her.

0:07:26 - (Subdeacon Stefan): It really struck me how much she connected to everyone once she had passed. And it was quite immediate and nobody really saw that coming. But when she had passed, just to see grown men who act tough in everyday life, bawling their eyes out at the hospital, at this young girl who has passed, who has never spoken a word physically in her life, to her, was enough to make me realize that love is beyond words and there is greater mysteries to life.

0:07:57 - (Natalie Moujalli): It's really such a beautiful story, Stephanie. Thank you for sharing that with us. She sounds incredible. And what you're saying is she managed to connect and build relationships with people without being able to speak, which really speaks to kind of what we've been talking about over the last few episodes. We've been talking about connecting and communicating through mostly non verbal language. And what you're saying is, you know, this brought grown men to their knees and there was no words spoken.

0:08:28 - (Natalie Moujalli): I can see why that would be part of why she was an inspiration to you and many people. Can you elaborate a little bit about. You said the inspiration?

0:08:38 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So one of the greatest inspirational things that Lauren will do is even in the midst of her suffering, she was just so joyful about little things. I reflect on being a teenager and not wanting the bar of my mum and being scared of my dad.

0:08:53 - (Natalie Moujalli): The usual teenage stuff.

0:08:54 - (Subdeacon Stefan): The usual teenage stuff. And just think about the fact that when Lauren was in hospital and she'd have a breathing machine on her face and she couldn't communicate using words, she. If mum was there in front of her, it was enough for her to just crack a smile. And I shared this once with our parishioners at ctr, that dad would stroke her in the back and say, do not worry, Lauren, you are not alone. We are here with you.

0:09:18 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And the resurgence that will come out of this girl would be phenomenal. The strength. And it just made me realize there is strength in this power that comes through love. There's strength that comes to family. It's at that point that I really started to learn more and more things from Lauren. I know personally, for me, just being in the life of so many people and they say to us, Stefan, you're such an inspiration to us.

0:09:41 - (Subdeacon Stefan): But the most heartwarming ones is when they come up to you and they say, you were the first one to give me a hug when I came to the church for the first time or when I was crying, you were the only one that just said, I'm here with you. And it just made me realize there is. There was. There was comfort and just a hug.

0:09:58 - (Jony Raad): And do you feel like it was her that really brought that out of you.

0:10:02 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah, yeah.

0:10:03 - (Jony Raad): And shaped you into that person.

0:10:05 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So my mom's a very affectionate person. But paradoxically, I would say my affection came more from Lauren that as much as Mum led by that example. You know, I always joke that when we were younger, Mum used to bite us out of the love that she.

0:10:18 - (Natalie Moujalli): Had, the aggressive love.

0:10:21 - (Subdeacon Stefan): But yeah, mom would show that affection. It was remarkable. But Lauren paradoxically, will show even more affection just being happy with you, being there with her. There was many memories. I'd come back from work when I was still living with my parents and coming through the front door and Mum would yell at me, saying, Steph, like making sure it's me. And as you can tell with my voice, my voice travels quite a bit. I get that from my ancestors.

0:10:46 - (Subdeacon Stefan): That's a story for another day. But nonetheless, I would with my voice say, yeah, Mum, it's me. And Mum would say to me every time Lauren's eyes would just widen and it's like she, she was, she was waking up, she knew you were home. Yeah, yeah. There was one time when Lauren was sick at home and she and dad was in Lebanon and she was sick the entire time until we kept saying the week that he was coming back, oh, we need to organize when dad, like, who's going to pick him up and so forth.

0:11:13 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And she got better.

0:11:15 - (Natalie Moujalli): She got better.

0:11:15 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Like the absolute resurgence of knowing Dad's coming back home.

0:11:18 - (Natalie Moujalli): So complete emotional awareness and intelligence for.

0:11:22 - (Subdeacon Stefan): A 13 year old. And mind you, because she was doing that from such a young age, it's just phenomenal how in tune she was.

0:11:30 - (Natalie Moujalli): Because she would probably have to rely on other senses.

0:11:34 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Absolutely.

0:11:34 - (Natalie Moujalli): And then they would be strengthened and heightened.

0:11:36 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, she's definitely an inspiration in that sense. This idea of just finding joy even in the little things. But also as well, she's inspirational in the sense that she was quite a little comedian. So there was one time I was looking after her and everything was fine. We were talking, she was having a great time, put on TV for her, everything was great. She heard the garage door opening, mom was coming back and she starts bawling her eyes up, she's growing little rascal. And I look at her, I was like, what's wrong with you?

0:12:09 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And Mum comes running in, like, what's wrong with her? And I looked at her, I was like, mum, she was fine, I promise you. She heard the grocer opening, she started crying. And I promise you, Nat, she stops crying and no Doubt probably has, like this little cheeky grin on her face, don't we? As a younger sister, she just got her older brother in trouble. And I always laugh saying that from heaven. She's probably getting me in trouble with all the saints as I speak right now.

0:12:31 - (Natalie Moujalli): No doubt.

0:12:32 - (Subdeacon Stefan): There was one time where Mum was mopping the floor and she slipped. And if you ever meet my mom, she's quite good with her sound effects when she's in pain, let's just leave it at that. And so she gets back up after falling, she turns around and Lauren's just laughing at her on the couch. People will look at her and think she's just lying there. No, she was a little in her.

0:12:54 - (Natalie Moujalli): Personality, which is unbelievable. I mean, I think that the beauty of this is that you were quite attuned to what that is.

0:13:02 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah.

0:13:03 - (Natalie Moujalli): Does that make sense? So, like, anyone that was intimately close to her would have known that very well. And probably people a little bit more distant may not have seen that or exposed to it. So it's like you learn her love language, you learn her character. So that's really beautiful.

0:13:19 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Lauren and I. So because Lauren could walk, I'd have to carry her up and down the stairs. And I just considered it a great privilege just being able to carry that young girl up and down the stairs. And no doubt just that physical touch was enough for us to grow in that bond as well.

0:13:34 - (Natalie Moujalli): For you, Stefan, to say something like, it was a privilege to carry her down the stairs.

0:13:40 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah.

0:13:40 - (Natalie Moujalli): Or up the stairs.

0:13:41 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah.

0:13:42 - (Natalie Moujalli): How old were you?

0:13:44 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Probably was around 12 years old when I first started carrying Lauren up and down the stairs.

0:13:49 - (Natalie Moujalli): So. So to be able to reflect on that time and think of it as a privilege is unbelievable.

0:13:54 - (Jony Raad): Quite privileged for a 12 year old as well.

0:13:58 - (Natalie Moujalli): I've got goosebumps because I'm just thinking about a few things that you've said. You've talked about how this matured you quite quickly.

0:14:05 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Oh, yeah, absolutely.

0:14:06 - (Natalie Moujalli): We know that the vocation you've taken, as well as the vocation of marriage, you're a subdeacon, so you are obviously quite connected to our Lord. And it sounds like she showed you love in its purest form. She taught you love in its purest form, which is God.

0:14:25 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Absolutely.

0:14:26 - (Natalie Moujalli): And that maturity you reach quite quickly because you're still quite young is really an example of that.

0:14:32 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And it'd be a struggle for my friends to understand sometimes. Absolutely. You know, I can't come out. I got to be with. With Lauren because they have younger siblings themselves. They're like, well, aren't they all right?

0:14:42 - (Natalie Moujalli): It's not your responsibility.

0:14:44 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Being in the presence of such an innocent young person was, like I said, just an immense, immense, immense privilege. And I always said I wanted to be that older brother. I always said that. So to be there for Lauren, especially at the times where she needed her family the most, was something that I was driven to do even from a young age. But to do it when she was sick was an even greater privilege in and of itself.

0:15:10 - (Subdeacon Stefan): I was also privileged in the sense that at times I would go to Lauren's school to pick her up or to drop her off and just to see the other kids there. There was this. I think his name was William, if I remember right. This young fella, God bless him, would just come up to you and he'd hand you his iPad and he wants you to play with him. And he's the most joyful kid, you know, the face of this planet.

0:15:30 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And you just look at it after a long, exhausting day and you think, man, you know, I had to get up early, I had to go to work. And you look at this kid and he's just happy with his iPad. And it's just a rule of Eye awakener. You realize, man, these are the people that we are meant to be pitying. And yet I pity myself now more in their presence because they are truly free. They are the ones that are enjoying life at such a joyful stance.

0:15:55 - (Subdeacon Stefan): We're the ones that are stuck in the rat race, if you want to put it that way.

0:15:59 - (Natalie Moujalli): It's a simple things. They are still. They find joy in the simple things. And we're complicated. We complicate things big time. Do you know what I mean?

0:16:08 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Absolutely.

0:16:09 - (Natalie Moujalli): You've talked a lot about the positive ways that this has impacted you. Do you mind sharing a little bit about the struggles?

0:16:18 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Absolutely. I think one of the great struggles was being exposed to the hospital and near death at such a young age was quite petrifying for me, I think. I wouldn't say out of all of us, but I definitely reflect back on it and thinking that when Lauren would go through seizures or she was in hospital, it was a real struggle for me to even be able to look at her, to look at the suffering that was going on.

0:16:41 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And because it was just so confronting, it wasn't as if it was a cut or anything like that. It was mortality. And that in and of itself was an immense cross to try and carry. And reflecting back on a now, I wasn't able to express what I was feeling As a young lad, which is why I think parents are so important, especially fathers towards sons, to be able to teach them what it means to express emotions.

0:17:03 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Because I was struggling immensely to be able to even express what was going on. And when I reflect back on my teenage years, I was quite a outlandish teenager. I was the loud one, I was the dramatic one. When I reflect back on it now, I realized, man, I was really trying to overcompensate something. I was really trying to compensate on the fact that I couldn't express what was going on in my heart.

0:17:26 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So I tried to just flood myself with as much joy as possible, not realizing that as I reflect back on it, the struggles of near death experiences was on my heart. And I didn't know how to be able to express that at the same time as well. The other struggles as well, they're just almost little things. Like, for example, I couldn't go out normally like other people. I had to factor in. All right, is Lauren going to be okay?

0:17:53 - (Subdeacon Stefan): We went overseas with Lauren in 2009 to Lebanon, which was a beautiful experience. But even then, you're going through airport security and they're like, okay, we got to pull out Lauren's BPAP here to check the battery. And you're like, nobody else has to be delayed like this. I remember my poor mom having to deal with all this paperwork. And I was younger, thinking meant like, why can't we just go through.

0:18:15 - (Subdeacon Stefan): I think the last one as well, that I did not realize myself because my parents did such a remarkable job at hiding this from us was that, financially speaking, it was a real struggle for my parents. I remember the, you know, the chocolates they used to give you in high school to sell, to raise up for stuff. Remember bringing that home and just saying, mom, like, you know, you want to buy any? And mom had to say no, she couldn't.

0:18:41 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Not even that. They were a dollar apiece. And even then, she couldn't say yes to that. It made me realize, man, it's expensive when you have a child like that. It's expensive. The hospital bills, the ambulance bills, the machines that constantly need to be maintained, the wheelchairs. Lauren was smaller. She was also a big girl. Like, Lauren was 3/4 my height at the age of 13. She was no sure girl by any means.

0:19:06 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So even then, the. The need to buy new clothes for her. There were so many different things going on. And yes, we're blessed in a certain extent that we have the ndis, we have government funding, but at the same time, we just have to be frank with ourselves. There are other things as well that it's just going to be a burden. And I never really realized how much of a shock it was until later on when you start to see how many things these people actually need in order to be able to live.

0:19:30 - (Natalie Moujalli): I my heart as a mum, as a parent, and obviously not having been through this, but just thinking about that there was multiple siblings and that your parents would have been trying so hard to meet the needs of everybody.

0:19:46 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah.

0:19:46 - (Natalie Moujalli): And that that's tough because there was people with higher needs more obviously.

0:19:51 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah.

0:19:52 - (Natalie Moujalli): But then there would be other siblings that potentially were struggling emotionally or mentally to. To deal with what was going on. And you can't be everywhere, you can't do everything. You're limited in your resources. So something's got to give at some point.

0:20:09 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Oh, yeah. Especially so. I was going through my teenage years and there were great challenges there, but my other siblings as well were very young when Lauren was born. My sister, my other sister Simone would have been seven years old and Andre would have been turning six when Lauren was born. So when all this is happening, they were very, very young. Cool thing about the hospitals, especially the children's hospital, which I give them a lot of credit to, is that they have the starlight rooms.

0:20:38 - (Subdeacon Stefan): They have like these game rooms that allow these kids to be able to see the hospital in a bit of a different light, thank God. But the challenges that both dad and mom were facing, one of Dad's mates, very beautifully when Lauren first entered the hospital, he came to dad, gave him money and he said, this is when brothers step up to help as well. So it's such a beautiful story. I remember the times where Mum was taking Lauren to church while Lauren was just in that physical state where she was struggling.

0:21:08 - (Subdeacon Stefan): But mom really wanted to go in for Mass and one of the ladies would come out and say, I'll sleep with Lauren. You're going. So the community really, really helped. And that's where I emphasize that there is very much a need for the community to come together and to be able to support especially people like this. One of my uncles. Very little small memory I have when we went to the beach one time with Lauren, carried Lauren into the water.

0:21:34 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Now, granted, she didn't like that because the water was freezing, but nonetheless, like, it's a new experience. That's where the challenges that my parents were facing, thank God there were people next to them, Simon and Serene.

0:21:47 - (Jony Raad): It sounds like your parents did an incredible job. Not only were they going through it, but they were actually trying to help you guys go through it too.

0:21:55 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Oh, yeah.

0:21:55 - (Jony Raad): And they're coming from a generation where all of our parents are coming from the same generation. It's a different generation. They were. It was survival. It was trying to make ends meet and then trying to cater to each child's needs. Just interested to know how each of you coped through that. Were there differences in the way you guys responded, in the way you guys maybe reacted? How was that for you and your.

0:22:20 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Siblings to go youngest to oldest? I know of my youngest brother, Andre, who has an absolute heart of gold. He was distant, but out of fear. He didn't want to hurt Lauren. So even when at times, for whatever reason, if I'm out of action, he had to carry Lauren, you can just tell how uncomfortable he was doing it. So being the youngest, he had that fear of hurting Lauren. My sister Simone grew into a mom rapidly to the point that she was bossing us around. Thank God for that.

0:22:53 - (Subdeacon Stefan): She was telling us what to do. Simone really matured. I guess the consequence of that, the matured very quickly. And I could say, maybe speaking on my behalf, is that when you have no choice but to mature quickly, it's all of a sudden to the outside world, you can come across as if you're a grumpy individual that doesn't grasp why they're finding these things so fun. So people will go to the clubs and I'll be like, why?

0:23:20 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Like, what a redundant waste of time. I realized more and more it's because of the fact that it's almost as if at the age of 12, I went through what an 18 to a 24 year old kind of would go through.

0:23:31 - (Jony Raad): Accelerated.

0:23:32 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah, accelerated rapidly. And so I look at them like, you guys are childish. And then I realized, oh, that's because I don't even know what childish kind of looks like. And so I really had to almost step back for the sake of not burning too many bridges. But you can see that my sister Simone, my sister Simone was an incredibly mature young lady. But it's funny how when she is silly, how childlike it is in her silliness, and it just makes me think maybe that's her going back to when she was younger to try and maybe relive those years.

0:24:06 - (Subdeacon Stefan): All I can say is that if you have somebody that you know that has a sibling who has a disability or sick or so forth, be wary of the fact that they probably have not experienced life as you have, and just be their friend, be there alongside with them. I especially love how one of my mates would go up to Lauren and just try to speak to her as if she was just a regular person. Because a lot of times people, once again, it's almost like they distance themselves.

0:24:35 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Lauren was very fragile to Perfumes as an example, so they'll think, I can't get too close. But I fondly remember people putting in the effort to just speak to Lauren, do the same thing.

0:24:47 - (Natalie Moujalli): Yeah.

0:24:47 - (Jony Raad): Don't be apprehensive out of fear. I think a lot of us are driven by the fear, like your younger brother. And so I know with people in my life who have disability, I kind of like to. I address the elephant in the room as soon as we kind of get in there. And I make it real casual. And I'm like, yep, this is what it is. And so it kind of eliminates people not wanting to offend or not wanting to, you know, say the wrong thing or hurt by saying something when you kind of address it and you're like, this is our reality and we love it.

0:25:17 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah.

0:25:18 - (Jony Raad): They are then welcomed in.

0:25:20 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yes.

0:25:21 - (Jony Raad): And then they feel comfortable enough to be themselves. A lot of people don't feel that comfortable.

0:25:27 - (Natalie Moujalli): Also, that experience is maturing them.

0:25:29 - (Jony Raad): Yeah.

0:25:30 - (Natalie Moujalli): You know, because it's something that they're not overly exposed to. And you talked earlier about. You internalized a lot, and there was difficult conversations that probably needed to be had as you were growing up. But they're hard, they're difficult, they're uncomfortable. And being in situations that we're not used to, they're good for us. We grow from them.

0:25:53 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yes.

0:25:53 - (Natalie Moujalli): But we have to sit through the discomfort.

0:25:55 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yes.

0:25:56 - (Natalie Moujalli): We have to sit through the unknown, through. You know, I'm just winging this, and let's see what comes of it.

0:26:03 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Beautiful.

0:26:04 - (Jony Raad): Being open.

0:26:05 - (Natalie Moujalli): Yeah.

0:26:05 - (Subdeacon Stefan): I listened to a TED talk, but she said to them, do not feel bad for us. We have an experience that allows us to be stronger than you are. And I thought, what a gf. That's it right there. Yeah. Yeah. I remember even at uni, we were asked the question once in one of the classes, who's your role model? I even said then, yeah, it's my younger sister. She's the strongest person I know because that's just strength that I'd never have to go through myself.

0:26:33 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So, yeah, making it normal, bringing it to the surface. It's beautiful moments for us to all be able to grow. I even think of one of the younger lads who attends our 6pm liturgy, and he's very severely on the other side of autism, but just the joy that he has. We'll be praying the Our Father, and this kid's just clapping and jumping around, like, just so jeed up with the Our Father. And you're like, man, if only I was that excited. Like, if only I was that good to go. So that's where I would say that we have much to learn from these people. If we start to place that paradigm of I have much to learn from you, you'll see them in the light that they deserve to be.

0:27:13 - (Jony Raad): Speaking of growth, how have you seen that grow your family?

0:27:18 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Oh, in terms of faith, it grew. I feel like it went. It was always there. But in terms of strength in Jesus. And my dad cracks the joke that my mom's car is just covered in pictures of the saints and crosses. It's like a chapel on wheels.

0:27:36 - (Natalie Moujalli): I like that.

0:27:36 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So in terms of faith, yeah, absolutely. Both my parents grew so much. Good thing is we were growing with them and so many seeds were planted in terms of appreciation that we have for each other as family, we've been through a lot. It's almost as if we can continue going through whatever challenges come our way. But I think maybe one of the things that isn't spoken about is when your sibling passes the differences that occur after that.

0:28:05 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So I remember fondly walking into the hospital room. The chaplain met me at the door, and she was saying to me, you know, they're doing everything they can. I was just so comatose by that point. I was like, yeah, okay, I've heard that all before. No problem at all. And I walked into the room, and I saw my mom and my sister. Sister crying. I was like, yeah, that's normal. Mom and my sister cry all the time.

0:28:26 - (Subdeacon Stefan): But then I looked over to my dad, and he was bawling his eyes up. And I said, okay, this is it. Like, we've come to that point. And this is a man. My dad formed the army in Lebanon. He's seen death, he's seen atrocities, he's seen bombings and all of that. He can almost laugh it off and brush it off. But the death of his youngest daughter just broke him. It. It just broke. Couldn't. And even my younger brother, I'll never forget my sister tried to call him. She couldn't handle the phone call, handed it to me. And my brother's just yelling on the phone as if his entire world is just crushed.

0:29:01 - (Subdeacon Stefan): So that difference, that effect isn't spoken about anywhere near enough, because passing death in and of itself is a confronting reality for quite a few people. But when it's a young teenager who sure was sick, but nobody saw their death coming. It changes you rapidly, quicker than you want to be changed. So I would notice, for example, that Mum now needed to find a new identity. So she just went around cleaning the parts of the homes that you'd never think in a million years you should clean. Like, it wasn't just the cupboards, it was the hinges of the cupboards themselves. And you're like, okay, like getting lost in the cupboards. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.

0:29:39 - (Subdeacon Stefan): I noticed. Even, for example, with my father now overly compensating on work, getting stuff done around the house, which is a beautiful thing, but trying as almost a distraction method, not trying to confront it for what it is, that is because they just need people around them to say, it's okay, you can cry, it's all right. You could be upset. You can mourn. For myself, I didn't mourn. And that's not because I don't miss my sister. I miss my sister immensely. It's just because the journey that I was on as Lauren passed just came at the right time and I was just that strong that it was.

0:30:18 - (Subdeacon Stefan): What am I to complain about? I've grown so much as a young lad. I now have a family member in heaven who is a saint who was praying for me all the time. So what a g up, like, this is exciting. This is the most exciting thing that I've been a part of.

0:30:31 - (Natalie Moujalli): So it's like your faith journey with the passing of your sister to.

0:30:36 - (Subdeacon Stefan): It almost began to culminate at that moment. It was quite phenomenal. The next step that was taken after that. But that was what I did to prep myself. And maybe that's a lesson for everybody, to always be ready because you just simply do not know when that's going to come. But, yeah, it's never spoken anywhere near enough. And I think that's maybe one of the challenges, especially of our community, to support those that are mourning, to be there alongside them, to understand why.

0:31:01 - (Subdeacon Stefan): One of my family members came up to me after Lauren passed. They said to me, oh, don't be upset, Stefan. What kind of life did Lauren live anyways? As a way of trying to console me? And it just goes to show they have a severe lack of understanding of what is occurring right now. I don't hold anything against them because that was their way of trying to figure it out. But don't say that, don't do.

0:31:22 - (Jony Raad): I think people get at a loss of what to say. And so they are. They start giving you anecdotes and it's okay. And because XYZ or this is the, you know, there's a reason. And sometimes it's just let them cry. Just sit with them.

0:31:36 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yes.

0:31:37 - (Jony Raad): And show them I am here.

0:31:38 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yes.

0:31:39 - (Jony Raad): And that is enough. That's all they want.

0:31:41 - (Subdeacon Stefan): The thing about Lauren as well, she was a constant presence in our home, a continual presence in our home. So when that was taken away from us, we needed that presence filled again. And that's. We're great as Lebanese, we all come to the home, we bring food with us. We're awesome in that regard. But we don't realize that sometimes this person just wants you to sit with them. Just wants you to sit with them. Just be there with them. Give them a hug. Because Lauren never said no to a hug. She never said no to a conversation.

0:32:10 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Just be there alongside them. And then you realize more and more that people like Lauren are truly gifts to us because of the fact that they are just amazing listeners. They don't interrupt you, they don't talk over you, they just listen.

0:32:25 - (Jony Raad): What did Jesus say? Be like Mary, not like Martha, and listen.

0:32:30 - (Subdeacon Stefan): As James says, be quick to listen and slow to respond. It's just a listening ear. It's amazing how much effect that had on people. So the same way we should do the same thing, we should definitely just be a listening ear, non judgmental. We will truly start to see more and more impacts, especially in the realm of mental health. I can definitely see that being one of the most important areas.

0:32:53 - (Natalie Moujalli): Well, that's one of the strongest impacts of counseling and therapy is that you go into a room and you get a non judgmental safe space where someone listens. And that's primarily the biggest impact of that experience. You know, where can I unload this? Where can I park this? Can I leave this here? You know, containment even.

0:33:17 - (Subdeacon Stefan): I was once chatting to somebody and as they were talking, I looked at them and said, you know what I've just realized? You need a brother. You just need somebody just to, just to be with, just talk to. Just so you know that they're listening to you. No judgments, no presuppositions, nothing. Just pure love.

0:33:35 - (Natalie Moujalli): And the value in the brotherhood, the sisterhood and the discipleship, the fellowship, it's all very beautiful. And I think what you were talking about earlier, you said, we don't talk about this enough. It's the many stages of grief. So you said, I was at a good point in my life where I could understand what was happening, but that might change indeed. You know, that's grief. Indeed it might. Bigger life scenarios may play out, and you may find yourself in a place where you have to confront this or deal with it in a different way. And same thing for your siblings.

0:34:13 - (Natalie Moujalli): Grief looks very different for everyone, and I think we need to be more aware of that.

0:34:18 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yes, absolutely.

0:34:19 - (Natalie Moujalli): Because you might say, oh, that person's not grieving. That person's not struggling. They're having a laugh with us.

0:34:24 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Us.

0:34:24 - (Natalie Moujalli): Sometimes they're having a laugh to escape what they're feeling in that time. And you said you did that growing up, you know, as a teenager, you were loud and joyful and you needed to park yourself there because that's where it was safe.

0:34:37 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah. Overcompensating.

0:34:39 - (Natalie Moujalli): Overcompensating.

0:34:40 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah, absolutely.

0:34:42 - (Natalie Moujalli): Thank you so much for sharing that with us, because I think it really does speak to experiences that many of us have. As someone who is supporting people through this type of experience, but also people that are going through this experience, you've been able to show us both perspectives, which has been very beautiful.

0:35:03 - (Jony Raad): It's just wonderful to see how you have changed and grown because of it. And it's incredible to see. Had you not gone through all of that, you may not be sitting here right in front of us.

0:35:15 - (Subdeacon Stefan): That is so true. That is so true.

0:35:18 - (Jony Raad): And sometimes we forget that. We try to cushion our lives to make sure that we don't feel too much suffering. But those are the experiences that shape us.

0:35:25 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Yeah. Oh, wow. There are. There are numerous times that Lauren will come to mind, and I will always dearly miss my younger sister. But for a long time, for whatever reason it was, I didn't speak about it often. And it's not because I was. I wasn't damaged or anything along those lines. It's just for a reason. I wasn't bringing it up without realizing that I have such a beautiful utensil to be able to say to one another, I know what you're going through. I know how you're feeling.

0:35:57 - (Subdeacon Stefan): Let me help you alongside that. But at the same time, to help them to see. I once said this to the youth. This was such a beautiful story. After long had passed, I was helping out Father Sam at a baptism. Our la Lord's. Don't ask me why he even brought this up. I don't know why, but Father Sam's a dear family friend of ours. And we're on the sacristy afterwards, and he turns around to me, says, that's why God gives us people like Lauren, Stefan. And I looked at him like, I don't know what the heck you're talking about, but please tell me, Father.

0:36:26 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And he looked at me and said, lauren's already a saint, and she's been given to us to make us into saints. Yeah.

0:36:33 - (Jony Raad): Mind blown.

0:36:35 - (Subdeacon Stefan): It's like, oh, my gosh. All right. That was beautiful. Now, I speak about Lauren candidly. To make us into saints. And that is what all of these people are with disabilities. They are already just perfect in a paradoxical sense. They are perfect. They are there for us to be formed as saints. So all I can say is get Jade and get.

0:36:57 - (Natalie Moujalli): Jeez.

0:36:57 - (Subdeacon Stefan): And get Jade and become a saint.

0:36:59 - (Jony Raad): Thank you so much.

0:36:59 - (Natalie Moujalli): Thank you for joining us, for sharing.