Issues Teens Face at School - Fr Ron Hassarati and Leena Dib

Episode Summary:

This episode of "Finding Sanctuary" brings together three remarkable voices tackling the mental health challenges facing young Aussies today. Host Debbie Draybi sits down with Fr Ron Hassarati—educator turned recently ordained priest—and Leena Dib, her friend and fellow education expert, for a raw conversation about parenting, faith, and finding your way in our digital world.

Father Ron and Leena don't hold back when discussing how technology's completely reshaping childhood and family life across Australia. They dive deep into the isolation epidemic gripping our young people—kids more connected than ever through screens, yet lonelier than previous generations. The conversation tackles tough topics: how social media's driving disconnection, why strong family structures matter more than ever, and the crucial role dads play in their children's development.

Both guests share honest insights about the pressures young Australians face today—from harmful online content to unrealistic social expectations affecting both young women and men. Drawing from their professional expertise and personal journeys, Father Ron and Leena offer practical wisdom on building resilience in our kids, nurturing faith in uncertain times, and helping young people discover their purpose despite constant digital distractions.

This isn't your typical parenting advice—it's a genuine discussion about protecting and empowering the next generation of Australians.

Key Takeaways:

• The significant role technology plays in both connecting and isolating young people, often leading to a lack of direction and self-awareness.
• The importance of nurturing strong familial structures, with a particular focus on the father's role in child development and offering stable guidance.
• The challenges that young girls face in terms of body image and self-esteem, exacerbated by social media influences.
• Strategies for individuals to rediscover themselves, reconnect spiritually, and focus on their strengths to overcome personal challenges.
• The notion of presence and connection in parenting, encouraging face-to-face interactions and building spaces for silence and solitude.

Notable Quotes:

• "People are looking for direction, meaning, and purpose but often seek it in the wrong places." – Fr Ron Hassarati
• "The journey to get there is the most important part, not just getting there." – Leena Dib
• "They want guidance, they want rules, they want direction." – Fr Ron Hassarati
• "To know the love of God, to know the love of Christ, to communicate that love to your family…" – Fr Ron Hassarati
• "Find your passion and develop it to the max." – Fr Ron Hassarati

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Transcript

0:00:04 - (Debbie Draybi): Welcome to Finding Sanctuary. Our shared conversations into how we think and feel and how we find peace and comfort in daily life. We get together with experts to chat about all things mental health, getting insights and understanding on the struggles of life. I'm really excited today. It's actually a very, very special episode for me because I have two very special people for me. A former teacher of Min, Father Ron Hazaradi and one of my best friends from high school.

0:00:35 - (Debbie Draybi): So we've come back together. Father Ron was teaching at the school at Our lady of Lebanon where I was at and that's where I met Lena. So it's just nice that we've come together again and I'm having flashbacks already. So it's just a lovely experience to reconnect. I'm just curious about your experiences. I know, you know, you have this incredible experience as teachers. Father Ron, you've been a teacher for over 35 years and least recently in the last two years you've been auditioning ordained as a priest, which is incredible.

0:01:06 - (Debbie Draybi): I think it's such an amazing journey. And also you're a father and you've got three of your own children. So I thought we'd start there around in your experiences in education, but also now as a priest and as a father, some of the things that you think, you know, the key issues young people are currently facing, particularly in the context of technology and the rapidly growing technology which, you know, is designed to keep us connected and informed. But at the same time we're seeing socially we've become so disconnected and I wondered how's that been playing out? What are some of the things that you've observed in your work but also in your ministry?

0:01:44 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Yeah, there's a lot there.

0:01:46 - (C): Yeah.

0:01:47 - (Debbie Draybi): It's a big question to start with, no pressure.

0:01:49 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Firstly, it's lovely to be with two ex students.

0:01:52 - (Leena Dib): I know, thank you. Nice to be with you.

0:01:54 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well behaved here, everyone, actually, you always well behaved.

0:01:58 - (Debbie Draybi): So that's, that's true.

0:02:00 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): You always handed in your homework.

0:02:01 - (Debbie Draybi): I did, I did. Hope my kids are listening.

0:02:05 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): The whole area of social media, I mean, I think a lot of kids are looking for direction now because in the broader society there's no real guidance. The church has lost, I guess the authority that it used to have, the place in society that it used to have, say before the 1960s. So these days everybody has a platform with social media. Everybody's a pope. Like everybody, you know, gets up and says, live this way, live that way. And kids are looking for some sort of direction.

0:02:34 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): So the sad thing is they just follow the latest trend. I often think of kids like a cork on an ocean just being blown anywhere with the latest trend. And they have no rudder, they have no sail, they have no sort of solid guidance, which in the old days people used to have, at least. So I think they're looking for direction, they're looking for purpose, they're looking for meaning, but they're often looking in the wrong places. I mean, people like.

0:03:01 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Who was that male influencer who got into a bit of trouble, very popular with the young boys. Andrew Tate. That's right. You know, he's not the perfect role model, but people are looking for something. I think someone like Jordan Peterson, who wrote a book, 12 Rules for Living, and then his second book was another 12 Rules for Living. And people are buying it en masse. So they want guidance, they want rules, they want some sort of direction, you know. So the problem with social media is that it's all over the place.

0:03:32 - (C): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:03:34 - (Leena Dib): I like how you brought up rules, because I teach boys and boys love rules. Like, they need to follow rules and they need to be told, when they're not following the rule, the consequences. So, yeah, the rules things is very important.

0:03:50 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Yeah. They would never admit that, would they?

0:03:51 - (Leena Dib): No, no, no. But it makes our life easy. But they do love rules. Yeah.

0:03:57 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): That's why they're attracted to things like the military and sports and they like the tough.

0:04:02 - (C): Yeah.

0:04:02 - (Leena Dib): But like you said, they wouldn't admit it.

0:04:04 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): They'll fight against it.

0:04:05 - (C): Yeah.

0:04:06 - (Leena Dib): But it's our job to say no. Yeah.

0:04:09 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Which comes into the whole area of the importance of good fathers. It's one of the things our society is certainly lacking. Good fathers as good role models, as present, so on, so forth. The family union, that's a big issue.

0:04:24 - (C): Yeah.

0:04:25 - (Debbie Draybi): So that's something that you're seeing in the schools, is that kids having a lack of fathers influencing them in a positive way. Is that a fairly new emerging issue or something that you've seen throughout your.

0:04:41 - (Leena Dib): I know, I've seen it for a long time. I always use the example when I do parent teacher interviews and the boys walking and the mum and dad are behind, like, you know, why that boy is like that. And the family, you know, at home is strong. Mum and dad are present, they're both at the interview, they both want to know what's happening in their life. And then, yeah, you're seeing a boy who's academic and socially accepting.

0:05:12 - (Leena Dib): Yeah. So definitely the family unit has a lot to do with the children's mental health and where they are in society.

0:05:20 - (C): Yeah.

0:05:21 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I remember when I first started the school nearly 40 years ago. Most of the students came from a solid family background. Last 20 years, that went out the window. And you always knew the kids who were. Who had real problems, who had real discipline problems. You always knew straight away you would hear that there is something going on at home. Like, that was a guarantee.

0:05:42 - (C): Yeah.

0:05:43 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): A good story I like to tell. There was some prison chaplains who were meeting. One of them got up, I think she was a nun, and she got up and she said, when it was Mother's Day, I got the prisoners. It was men's prisons. I got the prisoners to make Mother's Day cards. And they loved it. You know, all these big men covered in tats, making Mother's Day cards. They loved it. She goes, oh, this is a great idea. I want to do the same for Father's Day.

0:06:06 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, when Father's Day got there, she said, no one showed up. And then she said, and that's why these men were in prison. Okay. The absent father, the cold father, the abusive father, the distant father. So it's a big issue. It's a real big issue. I mean, obviously, we need great mothers as well, but there is a problem with absentee fatherism.

0:06:27 - (C): Yeah.

0:06:27 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): And they're good role models.

0:06:29 - (Debbie Draybi): Senior Chora talks about it a lot in our podcasts around that father wound and the absence of fathers. And we've certainly had conversations here in the past about masculinity and the importance of fathers in role modeling masculinity in a positive way. I'm wondering, you know, for the fathers out there that are listening and that are really struggling to show up for their kids in a positive way. As a father yourself, you know, not just as a priest, but also you've got children, what's some of the things that have helped you and guided you along the way to really show up for your kids in the way that they need?

0:07:03 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, the first thing, it's never too late. Second thing is, nobody's perfect. We all make mistakes. I'm not the perfect father. I'm not the perfect husband. Okay. But so the important thing is to understand, always move forward, be honest with your children. So if you've made mistakes, tell them, I'm sorry I've made mistakes, but I want to move forward with our relationship. It's just little things like learning to be positive with your children.

0:07:30 - (Leena Dib): Being present.

0:07:31 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Being present is so important.

0:07:33 - (Leena Dib): Just being there.

0:07:34 - (C): Yeah.

0:07:34 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I always think of the plant. If you tie the plant too tightly to the Stake it won't grow. Too loosely to the stake it won't grow. You gotta find that right balance. And parenting is the same. Spending good quality time with your kids, hugging your children, telling them you love them verbally, I mean, just little things like that. Very important.

0:07:55 - (C): Yeah.

0:07:56 - (Debbie Draybi): And father, as you say that that's, you know, one thing that resonates is sometimes we over complicate it and it sounds like it's not that complicated. They are the simple things of being present, admitting when things haven't gone well, knowing that no one's perfect and there's no such thing as a perfect father and trying to show up in the best way you know how. So, father, I'm just really curious about your observations around how parenting has changed over the years as well. And I know that we've come from a very traditional culture as Maronites and Lebanese.

0:08:27 - (Debbie Draybi): I'm wondering, do you see a difference with parents in how they parent their daughters over their sons? Is that something that's still common? Because I know in my family it was one way for the girls and one way for the boys.

0:08:38 - (Leena Dib): It was, but I think now it's a lot different.

0:08:42 - (C): Yeah, yeah.

0:08:43 - (Leena Dib): Like in generations that have passed, deaths was very evident. But now I don't feel that happen so much. Whereas the male or the sun is on a higher pedestal than the girls. They're all pretty even.

0:08:56 - (Debbie Draybi): Pretty even. So that's shifted.

0:08:58 - (Leena Dib): That's what I feel. But it still does happen.

0:09:00 - (C): Yeah.

0:09:01 - (Debbie Draybi): I just have to say, listen, as Lena's got her son sitting next to.

0:09:04 - (C): Her right now.

0:09:07 - (Debbie Draybi): He'S dressing with caution.

0:09:08 - (Leena Dib): He. Yeah, he knows.

0:09:10 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I must admit, I've seen it and I've experienced it, that a great person once said, Lebanese mothers make the greatest narcissists out of their sons.

0:09:20 - (Debbie Draybi): No, really?

0:09:20 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Yeah. But it does tend to happen. You know, boys get a lot longer leash. Girls are often made to stay at home and are much more protected. And look, there is a place for the gender differences. You know, boys are different from girls and they do need different things, but it's also important to remember as much as possible, you know, to treat them equally. Yeah, okay, that's important. And just, you know, to do the best that you can. That's all you can aim for.

0:09:48 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, look, it's an interesting one. I do grapple with it as a parent too, and often I stumble around. How do we find that equality? But at the same time, women have different needs to men, like genetically, biologically recognising that there has to be subtle differences in how we raise our kids sometimes depending on what they need.

0:10:07 - (C): Yeah.

0:10:07 - (Debbie Draybi): You had three daughters. So from that experience, what insight has that given you into raising women?

0:10:14 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, look, to be honest, I just tried to be as loving as I possibly could be. I don't know how I would have been different. If I'd had sons, I probably would have taken them to the footy more. You know, my daughters do girly things with their mum, they go shopping. I tend not to. I'm just not interested in any of that. So I think, yeah, I find with.

0:10:35 - (Leena Dib): Girls, they just want you to listen, you know, just to sit and listen. And I always find I'm so much. I'm in a hurry. Sorry, got to go. I'll call you back. But they just want us to listen.

0:10:48 - (Debbie Draybi): And your son, who happens to be sitting next to you, what do you.

0:10:50 - (Leena Dib): Find is different between him and the girls? That's the thing, not much. He's pretty much the same. Just wants me to be present and listening and guiding him. They want to be guided. What's wrong? Should I do this? Should I do that? That too can go the wrong way. Because you need them to start to learn to make their own decisions. But we need to guide them.

0:11:17 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, I think, just as you're saying that, Lean, I think about what father you were saying before around. There's a lot out there on social media. There's a lot of guidance, but there's also a lot of misinformation. So, I mean, even as a parent, sometimes I feel heightened awareness of needing to be a better guide because there's a lot of confusing messages out there and a lot of conflicting messages out there and even not even really being aware of what they're being exposed to and what is landing for them, and.

0:11:49 - (Leena Dib): It follows them everywhere. That's why us as parents. I use this one a lot. They need vitamin N, which is. No, get off your phone, no more phones. They don't hear it enough. Yeah. Otherwise they'll be on there 24 7. They're being guided the wrong way. They're not leaving their friends, they're not out. You know, we say that the teenage is the most important. Go out, exercise, get sun. But they're in there gaming or on their phone.

0:12:21 - (C): Yeah, man.

0:12:22 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I found. I talk about the four disconnects because of social media. The disconnected from nature, they're disconnected from other people, they're disconnected from themselves and they're ultimately disconnected from God because they are continually plugged in to some device.

0:12:39 - (Leena Dib): And that. That's our role as Parents, teachers, different. We have a no phone policy at school, so we're really on top of that. But that's where it's our job to say, come on, get off it.

0:12:51 - (C): Yeah.

0:12:51 - (Leena Dib): You know, work with the. Have a chat. All right, how many do you want? Half an hour when you get home from school. Like, I can't. I feel that if I dictate that they'll rebel. So we work together. What's enough time? We agree that's. Yeah.

0:13:07 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): It's almost like we've got to go back to that old idea of the Sabbath where you have at least one day a week where you just focus on your relationships with each other and your relationships with God, because these are the ultimately important relationships. I mean, I've been to several deathbeds, and at a deathbed, they're holding their family in one hand and the rosary beads in another hand. God and their loved ones. They're not looking at their Facebook accounts or how many followers they have on TikTok and so on and so forth. So this idea of the Sabbath, it was a good idea that you have one day a week at least, where you just leave everything behind, focus on the important things in life.

0:13:47 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): We've lost that.

0:13:48 - (C): Yeah.

0:13:49 - (Debbie Draybi): As you were saying at the beginning, there is that erosion of church and faith, in a way, in our society. Society. And so with that, there's the erosion of a structure and guidance that one day a week you have rest and separation. I mean, it's quite even.

0:14:07 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): We Christians have sort of thrown it out the window in many ways. I remember when I was young, growing up, you know, you were lucky to find a shop open on a Sunday or a sporting event on a Sunday. Some countries, like Tonga, it's still illegal to open up a shop, but in our modern secular society, we've thrown that out the window to our detriment in many ways.

0:14:29 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, absolutely. Just thinking about it in the way that you framed it, you know, we were forced to separate from the busyness of life, and now there's just that continuity. Seven days a week. There's no difference, really.

0:14:41 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, I was talking to some young people from Lebanon just recently, and they were saying the lifestyle over here is just. They don't like it because there's no social life like they had back in Lebanon.

0:14:51 - (Leena Dib): So they diarise our social events, don't we?

0:14:54 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): It's like even our parents coming over.

0:14:56 - (C): Yeah.

0:14:56 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): You know, you can come over.

0:14:59 - (C): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:15:00 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): And they say they would prefer to live in Lebanon. I mean, obviously the economic, social conditions are not Good. But in terms of lifestyle, having fun and spending time with people, they say that they just don't see it over here. They don't experience it.

0:15:16 - (Leena Dib): Yeah, it's true.

0:15:17 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah. It's almost like this strong desire, particularly with migrants, to work and to maintain that work ethic and to build our community and our society.

0:15:28 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Which they did. Yeah, they certainly did.

0:15:31 - (Debbie Draybi): But we've continued to be work at that pace.

0:15:34 - (Leena Dib): Every generation is just getting.

0:15:36 - (C): Yeah.

0:15:36 - (Leena Dib): Worse and worse.

0:15:38 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, I think that's. That's something I've been quite curious about. I hear that a lot from new migrants, new arrivals from Reban, where they notice the difference in our community in Australia, where we're much more disconnected from social life and from relationships, because the emphasis is on work.

0:15:58 - (C): Yeah.

0:15:58 - (Leena Dib): And then that goes back to being present at home. Mum and dad are both working, so the kids come home, parents are still at work. What are they doing? They're on their phone. Technology. It's following them because there's no one there to say no or get off that.

0:16:15 - (Debbie Draybi): Let's do this to really build those boundaries. And you said those four disconnects, how do we combat them? What is some of your sort of advice around? How do we reconnect from the thinking about those four different disconnects?

0:16:30 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): We need to make spaces for silence, for solitude, for quality time with your loved ones. Just need to make those spaces. Put the phone down. I mean, look, speaking about problems with social media, I've got to mention pornography. I mean, the amount of people, especially men, who struggle with it, is off the page. And it's addictive, like a drug addiction, but it's a drug that you've got available 24, seven at your fingertips.

0:17:01 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): It fries the brain, you know, it teaches you to look at people simply as a tool to be used for your benefit. You know, person is an object to be used for your benefit, which is exactly the opposite of love. I mean, love is I am there to serve you. The pornographic mindset mentality says, you are there to make me happy. And when you don't make me happy anymore, I just throw you away and move on to the next object.

0:17:26 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): So it's causing a. I see it causing a breakdown in relationships, a breakdown in marriages, which leads to the breakdown in families, which is, you know, it connects in with everything, comes back to.

0:17:38 - (Leena Dib): Our topic and how to help. How can we help students and families get through, you know, their lives and their problems?

0:17:49 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I wish the government would just. I don't know if they can but ban pornography.

0:17:52 - (C): Yeah.

0:17:53 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I honestly wish they would.

0:17:54 - (Debbie Draybi): They're very unpopular now, Father.

0:17:56 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, good. But, you know, if you had a drug dealer standing outside of a school, just handing out drugs as the kids walked out, you wouldn't allow that. Every kid's got a mobile phone now. He's one button away from pornography. You see, in the Catholic worldview, we have the vision of love, marriage, sex, children. They're the four wheels on the car that make the car go forward, whether that car is the individual, the family, or society.

0:18:25 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): We have separated that completely, especially since the 1960s. Okay. You know, pornography, for example, is just sex by itself. No connection to love, family, children at all. And people don't realize it.

0:18:39 - (Debbie Draybi): And it's really what I'm hearing is it's been so destructive in terms of relationships and expectations we have of relationships. It's really shifting that mindset.

0:18:52 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Yes.

0:18:52 - (Debbie Draybi): What are some of the things you've noticed about that?

0:18:54 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I mean, if you've got a young boy who's been watching pornography since 15 and gets married at 25, he has a totally unrealistic expectation or understanding of what sex is going to be like or what a relationship with a real woman is going to be like. Totally warped. And so he has a lot of adjusting to do. I mean, you probably would have seen this after Covid, kids came back different. Yeah, it's hard to explain, but there was something different about the students who, when they came back, it was like there was a sense of unwholesomeness about them. Did you notice that?

0:19:31 - (Leena Dib): They did definitely come back different, and it was just trying to retrain them again in terms of their presence and their not being on devices. That was a big thing because they were on them all the time.

0:19:46 - (Debbie Draybi): So it sounds like during that time, during COVID they lost a lot of themselves, really. And the connection with themselves. One of those disconnects that you talk about, there was a difference in how they're presenting with each other or like, what are the. What's. You know, what are the differences that you noticed?

0:20:02 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, look, there definitely was a certain sense of unwholesomeness about the group at large together.

0:20:10 - (Debbie Draybi): The dynamics.

0:20:10 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): The dynamics. Even the way they related to each other was just a bit off. I mean, I put a lot of that down to being bored at home during COVID and probably spending a lot of time watching the wrong things. Yeah, I really do.

0:20:24 - (C): Yeah.

0:20:25 - (Debbie Draybi): So it sounds like it really changed them in terms of having that isolation. They were perhaps exposed to things they weren't ready for.

0:20:33 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I mean, you guys would know a lot more about this than me. But I think we're dealing with collective trauma at the moment in so many ways.

0:20:40 - (C): Yeah.

0:20:41 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): And look, one of the things that I think that is hopeful about Christianity is that we have this image of a crucified God who was traumatized physically, socially, mentally, spiritually, in every way possible. But he points to a way through that, which is what we call the resurrection. So that does give people hope. There is a way through it, but it's through the wounds. It's not denying the wounds. It's through the wounds that you come to the light.

0:21:12 - (Debbie Draybi): Thinking about that with. Let's use pornography as an example for those that are, you know, we know it's common. It's rampant throughout the society. What's some advice that we can give to some of our listeners who find they're stuck in that space? They're quite drawn to it. Perhaps. Maybe they don't see it as an addiction, but it's something that is consuming a lot of their time.

0:21:34 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): A lot of them do. A lot of them do see it as an issue.

0:21:37 - (C): Yeah.

0:21:38 - (Debbie Draybi): What's something that you'd advise them to do in terms of having some separation from it?

0:21:43 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): And I think the whole area of theology, the body, is very good. GK Chesterton said, every man is looking for God. You are looking for an ultimate connection, an ultimate intimacy, but you're looking in the wrong place. You're not going to find it on the computer screen. This connection that you're looking for, this intimacy that you're looking for. Ultimately, this love you're looking for, you're looking for it in the wrong place. The same, I would say, with a drug addict or an alcoholic.

0:22:09 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): You're looking for this ultimate happiness, this ultimate fulfillment in something that is not going to give it to you. And that's why you continually need more and more and more of it.

0:22:19 - (Leena Dib): They're trying to fill a void.

0:22:22 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Yeah, they're trying to fill a void with something that's not going to fill it.

0:22:25 - (Leena Dib): If you're talking of students in particular, there's so many people out there. We have at school, our parish priest is always there. They're always reaching out. Our counsellors, our year coordinators, there's a lot of people that they can reach out to. If they're not comfortable with certain people, they've just got to make that step to ask for help.

0:22:49 - (Debbie Draybi): One of our main goals with this podcast is to reach out to people that are suffering in silence, and they may be grappling with the issue of pornography or other addictions. On their own. But as you described, there's a collective trauma. And it's not unique. Actually, most people are going through it through something.

0:23:08 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): I think everybody's going through it in some way.

0:23:10 - (Debbie Draybi): In some way.

0:23:11 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Every family is going through it, every individual is going through it. It's the nature of reality.

0:23:15 - (Debbie Draybi): And what they're searching for is that connection, but it's in the wrong place. Cause they can see themselves over time, that it's not serving them well and it's becoming more exaggerated and they're fixated on it and they really can't get away from it. And it's become very habitual. So being able to redirect, what's some guidance around that. You know, if someone's feeling that isolation and feeling a lot of guilt or shame around this. Cause it's a hard topic to open up about in our.

0:23:41 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): We're talking about pornography and potential pornography.

0:23:43 - (Debbie Draybi): Or other addictions as well. Just thinking about that. If they're suffering with that, they haven't really been able to open up about it to anyone. How can they start thinking about ways to reconnect and maybe redirect some of those behaviors more positively? What's, you know, what's the first step that someone can take?

0:24:02 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): When you asked that question, I thought of the 12 step program, automatically, you know, of Alcoholics Anonymous. First step, admit you've got a problem. It's the very first step, admit that you have a problem. Second step, admit you can't fix this problem by yourself. You need the help of God, God's grace. You know, I can't do this. I can't do this by myself. That's a very important step. And then you start, you know, speaking to people, reaching out to people, counselors, professionals in the area.

0:24:29 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): And then, you know, stick to your basics, okay? It's only going to make things better.

0:24:34 - (Leena Dib): I know at schools they are taught not only to speak up, but there's websites, there's programs, you know, things reach out programs that you can contact. If you don't want to speak to someone. You know, these people are there waiting to help.

0:24:51 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): But you have to confront the problem. You can't just. I'll deal with this. Because that's one of the problems in our culture that I find, especially with the men, I'll deal with it myself. I don't need to speak to somebody about it. I can deal with it. And I'm sure you people here can speak a lot more about this than I can. But, you know, it doesn't work. You can't just pretend the past didn't happen and it's not going to affect you now, which. A lot of people I know have that approach.

0:25:19 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Yeah, Just get over it. I'll fix.

0:25:23 - (Leena Dib): Doesn't work somewhere.

0:25:25 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): It comes back in some way.

0:25:26 - (C): Yeah.

0:25:26 - (Leena Dib): Maybe later, once you've had children, then it happens. See it in your. In your children.

0:25:33 - (C): Yeah.

0:25:34 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): You must come across that all the time.

0:25:35 - (Debbie Draybi): But, yeah, it does manifest in different ways, particularly when that mindset of I can deal with it on my own.

0:25:42 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Especially men in our culture, they see it as some sort of weakness that.

0:25:46 - (C): Yeah.

0:25:46 - (Leena Dib): To get help.

0:25:47 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): To get help. Or to admit that I'm vulnerable or to admit that I'm needy. Big problem.

0:25:53 - (C): Yeah.

0:25:53 - (Debbie Draybi): I think that's been a huge message for us in this podcast around how do we reframe asking for help? Rather than see it as a weakness, see it as a sign of strength. Vulnerability is a strength. Being open about the things you're struggling with. It's incredible how much strength that does take. And it's a sign of strength, not weakness. Being able to frame it in that way and to recognize when you open up, other people identify with it. And as you said, it's that power of the collective.

0:26:24 - (Debbie Draybi): We come from a collective culture, and we're not meant to be dealing with things as individuals on our own.

0:26:29 - (Leena Dib): Even. I know when I chat to you, and we're not complaining, but we're debriefing about our children. And I'm like, debbie's gone through it too. Thank God it's not just my daughter or my children. Yeah. You feel a lot more relieved that other people are going through the same thing.

0:26:48 - (C): The same thing. Yeah, absolutely.

0:26:51 - (Debbie Draybi): I think that's a huge message to know that we're not alone. Suffering is shared. Everyone has something painful, something that's grappling with.

0:27:00 - (C): Yeah.

0:27:00 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Everybody, Every family, every institution, every marriage. That's something I've really. That's hit home to me as a priest.

0:27:08 - (C): Yeah.

0:27:09 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): You know, you speak to somebody for more than 10 minutes and, yeah, you'll get there.

0:27:13 - (Debbie Draybi): And just for our boys that are listening or dads out there really wanting to improve their life and to reconnect, perhaps, you know, they haven't in the past. What are some of the things. Suggestions that you can make around going to church? Absolutely. But what are other practical things that. I know that you're both active in parishes. What are practical things that you've seen that really bring boys and men together?

0:27:38 - (C): Yeah.

0:27:39 - (Leena Dib): Our church offers so many different groups that we can join. They've got the youth group from 7 to 12, that age group. Then they have the 18 to 30 year old. This all happens once a month. They're always on chats and talking and giving ideas to one another. We have the men's night too. That's once a month. So many things going on within the church that you can join and be part of. When you're part of something, part of a community, you feel belong, like you're belonging to something.

0:28:11 - (Leena Dib): And it really. It helps when you're part of a community. Yeah.

0:28:16 - (Debbie Draybi): So I think that's a really beautiful message Lane. Thinking about ways to form community, practical ways, and thinking about going to your local parishes, seeing what's out there. There's groups for.

0:28:28 - (C): Oh, yeah.

0:28:29 - (Leena Dib): And even like I get my children, they're altar servers. They've become eucharistic ministers. And it's just once a month. Once, twice a month. But when you're part of something, you belong, you feel.

0:28:41 - (Debbie Draybi): And you're also doing something, like you're doing something creative and you're contributing in a positive way. We have had a previous podcast, the Maronite Run Club, which was just a beautiful idea, again, of connecting people, particularly when you feel like you're not part of already established groups within a church, like Our Lady. It's a big parish and I mean, they set up the Maronite Run Club to really engage outside of church first and then make it easier when you see each other at church. There's already a connection.

0:29:09 - (Debbie Draybi): Cause it can be scary when you're going into big, already established parish and.

0:29:13 - (Leena Dib): Groups to fit in.

0:29:15 - (C): Yeah.

0:29:15 - (Debbie Draybi): Father Ron, what about yourself? Any other things that you're involved in?

0:29:18 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Very, very similar, you know, parish men's groups, youth groups. But I would just say be proactive. If your parish doesn't have something that you don't like, look. Look for something. Don't just sit there and wait for it to come to you.

0:29:30 - (C): Yeah.

0:29:31 - (Debbie Draybi): And, you know, take another step further. If they don't have anything, set it up. I mean, that Maronite Run Club, it was incredible. It came from an idea where someone felt quite isolated and alienated to, you know, join a big parish. And they started small with a really fun thing that they enjoy doing that they found less intimidating than sitting in a big group after church and. Yeah, so.

0:29:53 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): But I hate running, so.

0:29:55 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, exactly. Find something you like. Build it together to build community. I know we've talked quite a bit about supporting our boys, but I know both of you have girls and you've parented three Girls each. So I'm just wondering about any, any unique issues that you think young girls and women are facing in society and things that you've seen in the schools as well.

0:30:19 - (Leena Dib): I know they're always again, on social media looking at what this girl's wearing, what this girl's doing, not only the girls, but the celebrities and the influences, the influencers and technology amplifies all of that like it really does. They might be feeling a little bit down and then it just makes it worse because of what they see out there. So just restricting the social medias is really hard.

0:30:47 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Look, I don't know one female who's happy about the way she looks. To me, being overweight is the new mortal sin in some way. And it's so sad to see so much pressure is on girls to look at a certain way. It's just so sad that you're growing up. They can never be really happy with who they are.

0:31:08 - (Leena Dib): Just trying to teach them to be healthy. That health, that's what I try, try to do. I eat and exercise to be healthy so I can live a long time. So when I'm in my 60s and 70s, I've got muscles, run, I can walk. Yeah. Nothing to do with what we look like. But unfortunately that's all they see at that time in their life, the teenagers or early 20s.

0:31:35 - (Debbie Draybi): Yes, there's some big issues there that, you know, our confronting girls and women. Thinking about that again, any guidance that you might have for someone who is struggling, whether it's through their own images of themselves or, you know, feeling that pressure, like you said of social media, any guidance around what would be useful for girls who are hearing this and can relate to what you're saying?

0:31:58 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, for both girls and boys, I just would say focus on your strengths and what you can do. Jesus wants us to focus on our gifts and talents and he wants us to use our gifts and talents to make the world a better place. So do it. Yes, you have to deal with the pain. Yes, you have to deal with the trauma. Speak to your parents, speak to a priest, speak to a professional. You have to do with it. But then you also need to have a goal. You need a positive goal, a positive direction.

0:32:30 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Use your gifts to ask yourself, how am I going to use the gifts and talents that are unique to me that God has given me to help make this world a better place? That's the goal.

0:32:39 - (Leena Dib): That's the direction I've always, from when my kids were little and other kids, they've got to have their thing. My Son, I tried soccer, football, everything. Think he just didn't like. And that's what all the boys were doing. And I'm like, but they need to have their thing.

0:32:54 - (C): Yeah.

0:32:54 - (Leena Dib): And others. He played tennis. We found tennis. He loves to work. He's a hard worker. So we. He started working. They've got to. Is it. Be it playing in a band, be it playing a sport like what you were saying, Find your thing.

0:33:10 - (C): Yeah.

0:33:11 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Find your passion.

0:33:12 - (C): Yeah.

0:33:13 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): And then develop it to the max.

0:33:14 - (Leena Dib): And you might not find it straight.

0:33:16 - (Debbie Draybi): Away, but, you know, so it's almost like redirecting that pain as well to something that, you know, you're good at, you're passionate about, you're curious about. Cause we can get so caught up in our trauma and that's all we know about ourselves. And that's the only story we tell ourselves. But thinking about really changing that narrative.

0:33:33 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): There's a positive story.

0:33:34 - (C): Yeah.

0:33:35 - (Debbie Draybi): This doesn't define you.

0:33:36 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): That's right.

0:33:36 - (Debbie Draybi): It's definitely part of, you know, your life experience. Thinking about what you said earlier, Father, everyone has a cross. I think it's a really strong message around thinking about acknowledging what that is, but also understanding that we're more than just our pain and our loss and our grief. We also have incredible gifts, as you said, the resurrection and being able to.

0:33:58 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): Well, the cross is the path to the resurrection.

0:34:00 - (C): Yeah.

0:34:01 - (Debbie Draybi): Being able to recognize what it is that's going to resurrect you from that pain.

0:34:04 - (Leena Dib): It's a journey. You know, the journey to get there is the most important part. Not just, you know, getting. Getting there. You know, there's going to be setbacks.

0:34:15 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): None of us are there, but we're all on the journey.

0:34:18 - (C): Yeah.

0:34:19 - (Debbie Draybi): So just as we're wrapping up, I'm still mindful of what you said. You know, working with people, particularly at the end of their life, you know, you see what they're holding. It's their relationships and their faith. And I think it's been a beautiful message that you've shared with us. I wondered whether you had any words of wisdom for people listening to help them and guide them to stay strong and not wait till the end of their life to hold onto those really important things.

0:34:45 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): To know the love of God, to know the love of Christ, to communicate that love to your family, to your wife, to your husband, to the people you work with. But you need to first experience it yourself. You need to first know it yourself. That's what it's all about in the end. Love of God, love of neighbour, and then use your life to bring light into the world and if you reach.

0:35:07 - (Leena Dib): The age of 90 or 100, look back and say, did I, did I achieve what I wanted to in terms of the love of Christ? Did I spread his word? Did I help where I can?

0:35:20 - (Debbie Draybi): Thank you. Thank you both. I think it's such a beautiful message around coming together for yourself first and connecting with your faith and with Christ and then the relationships will just form from that with others if that's right.

0:35:33 - (Fr Ron Hassarati): 1St thank you.

0:35:34 - (Leena Dib): Thank you. Tibby.

0:35:41 - (Debbie Draybi): I hope this episode has helped you find sanctuary in this exciting journey of life. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are found in the podcast Notes. If you need some assistance with any of the topics discussed in today's episode, then please Visit our website, HSHL.org au if you have any thoughts, comments or ideas, please leave us a comment on Spotify. Alternatively, send us an email@adminshl.org

0:36:12 - (Debbie Draybi): au. You and your mental health matters to us and we hope you get one step closer in finding sanctuary. Bye for now.