Marunite Run Club - Fitness, Friendship, Faith

Key Takeaways:

• Community Building through Activity: The Marunite Run Club successfully brings people together, blending physical exercise with opportunities for community-building and faith exploration.
• Casual Settings Promote Connection: A non-intimidating environment, like casual run/walk meet-ups, significantly eases social interactions and encourages new friendships.
• Inclusive Approach: The initiative is not limited to runners; it welcomes walkers and even those who show up post-run for social interactions, fostering inclusivity.
• Breaking Social Isolation: Especially relevant in a digital age, the club creates real-life connections that counteract widespread social isolation and disconnection.
• Inter-Parish Engagement: While centered in a specific area, the club's flexibility allows participation from multiple parishes, enhancing cross-community fellowship.

Notable Quotes:

• "You could see it as a bridge into the Maronite community if you feel left out." – Julian 
• "Saturday is kind of like a therapy session for a few of us. Have a few laps and just kind of like, be. Spend our week out." – Jacinta 
• "If you carry the cross in your heart and that's your intention, it will succeed." – Julian 
• "It's so easy to put your phone down for an hour or so. It's good to have the nice detox." – Jacinta 

For more information on the Hills Sanctuary House visit our website https://hshl.org.au/
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Transcript

0:00:00 - (Debbie): Welcome to another episode of Finding Sanctuary. I've got Nat joining me, co hosting today. She was supposed to be the main host, but that's a conversation for later, which I'll give her a hard time about. Hi, Deb. Hi guys. And we've got two exciting guests. I feel absolutely intimidated because they literally ran in here. We've got two members of the, or the founders really of Maronite Run Club. I've got Julian Boumwansor with me and Jacinta Kadare.

0:00:24 - (Debbie): So good to have you guys here. Really excited to be talking to you.

0:00:28 - (Julian): Thanks for having us.

0:00:29 - (Jacinta): It's great to be here.

0:00:30 - (Julian): Yeah.

0:00:30 - (Debbie): Maronite Run Run Club. That's incredible. I mean, thinking about, you know, Run Club, it's an institution. It's incredible to see how you've marinatified it, which, you know, it's just an amazing opportunity to build community and connection and I want to, I was wondering around your thoughts around that, what it's meant for you in terms of bringing people together, bringing Maronites together in what's such a creative and connecting way.

0:00:56 - (D): Yeah.

0:00:57 - (Julian): So for us it's really important that we have an avenue for Maronites to meet each other in such a casual way. In my own personal experience, some churches are so intimidating with such a large youth. And when you're trying to break the ice with a lot of them or break yourself into that community, it can be hard and you get lost in it. When you're in a casual scenario where you're just doing five laps around or three laps around oil ground and you're in such an informal area, it's really, really easy to break the ice with someone. It's really easy to start that conversation. And when you have a group of people who are there just to make friends, that ice breaks really well.

0:01:34 - (Debbie): And.

0:01:35 - (Julian): And from that, three laps around Doran goes very quickly and you have made a new friend. It's incredible.

0:01:40 - (Debbie): I noticed how you very strategically went from 5 laps to 3 laps because hear that listeners? 3 laps only.

0:01:47 - (Julian): Cuz I run 5 with some of the runners, but most of the walkers, they run, they walk three, so about 80, 80% walk, 20% run.

0:01:56 - (D): Wow.

0:01:56 - (Julian): Even with the runners, it's a different story where a lot of runners there are to accomplish some sort of goal. And I'm always happy to run with them. I'm a very slow pace myself. But we've had a few people looking to get into running, just into fitness in general. And running with them makes all the difference. And then even with the walking. Walking with them makes it. Makes it feel like you're never alone.

0:02:15 - (D): Yeah, yeah.

0:02:16 - (Debbie): So we've got a runner and a walker here. So we have a combination of both. So, Jacinda, do you want to tell us a little bit about your experience as well as the official walker?

0:02:25 - (Jacinta): Yes, Official walker. I'll wear that badge with honor. It's just. It's honestly something where I'm a bit of a hermit and joining the Maronite Run club as a walker and meeting new people, making new friends, which is a bit of a challenge when you're in your 20s, but it brings such a sense of joy that started to grow and make new friends. Having, like, the support of Julian as well along the way. Like, there's times where it's like, you've done really well today because I'm very, like, in my shell and it's just really brought me out to be a bit of an introverted extrovert, if you will.

0:03:04 - (D): Wow.

0:03:05 - (Debbie): So what I'm hearing is, you know, it's such an opportunity. I really relate to both of you, what you're saying in terms of. In a lot of our conversations we've had, whilst we come from such a big, beautiful, supportive community, it's also a very intimidating one, particularly when you feel like you don't fit in. And we've had lots of chats about how sometimes even coming to Maronite Mass, people feel quite inadequate.

0:03:29 - (Debbie): They feel like they don't belong or they're not good enough or they don't have the right clothes or drive the right car or, you know, come from the right family. These are some of the things that we've been talking a lot on this show. So it's just. I think what you've done is brilliant, like to try and bring people together, breaking down those, you know, barriers that get in the way for us to feel like we can connect, particularly if we see ourselves, we're not that social or we don't have that confidence to, you know, get out of our comfort zone.

0:03:57 - (Debbie): You've used, you know, an incredible medium to come together with nature. I know that you can bring your dogs, apparently.

0:04:03 - (Julian): That's what I heard. We'll see your dog there soon.

0:04:05 - (Debbie): Yes, they got to meet my dog yesterday on the Zoom call. So, yeah, absolutely. It sounds like it's just such a beautiful opening for people to come together.

0:04:16 - (D): You're right.

0:04:17 - (Julian): You could see it as a bridge into the Maronite community if you feel left out. I was speaking to someone about this, so from what I'm most proud of is I spoke to SDS about this something and so fun. There's something called embers in the Eucharist. So when they do the transubstantiation and they make the triangle out of the Eucharist, that's called an ember. There's a few stories around why we do embers culturally, but one of the stories I do like to hear is we do pass it on to the next parish to show we've practiced the community. We brought our community together.

0:04:47 - (Julian): SDS was like, to me, even if you have 20 or 10 or five people come, you've made an ember in that. Where you've had someone come to their own club and now they've made new friends at the Run club. And now they're going to. What happens is they've got a few friends now on the Saturday, they're going to reach out, hey, come mass with me or come adoration with me on that Sunday. And now you've got someone coming to church regularly because they feel safe with that one person.

0:05:08 - (Julian): And hopefully that one person will introduce them to their social group. And it flows on, it flows on, it flows on. And to the point where you have someone that's committed back into the faith or just refining their faith or someone that's looking at, like, discerning where they are at life. And you have a Maronite that's so welcoming to bring them back in. It's somewhat. It's something beautiful that I'm really proud of.

0:05:26 - (Debbie): That's amazing. So sorry, what's sds?

0:05:28 - (Julian): Oh, sorry. Substige. So he's the.

0:05:32 - (Debbie): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:05:33 - (Julian): I'm so sorry.

0:05:33 - (Debbie): Oh, that's a person. Not a thing. Yeah, yeah. So we don't know Stefan.

0:05:37 - (Julian): So sorry.

0:05:38 - (Debbie): I'm totally out of the loop here.

0:05:40 - (Julian): He's part of a ctr.

0:05:41 - (Natalie): Yeah, I know.

0:05:42 - (Debbie): Who's Stefani? I just didn't know he's sds. Yeah, he has his own acronym. That's incredible.

0:05:47 - (Julian): The kids like to call him SDS these days. So we.

0:05:50 - (Debbie): We had definitely nice to farm back.

0:05:52 - (Julian): That's right. CTR do Faith food and fire talks regularly, which is incredibly beautiful. We thought we'd do My Legs are on Fire. Very.

0:06:00 - (Debbie): I love that.

0:06:01 - (Julian): And like, even then, we had one person just continually asking questions about the faith. And it was beautiful to see someone just come back to the faith through that one experience. If you. If you help. Help one person. It's incredible, incredible achievement.

0:06:15 - (Debbie): I'm just curious how you guys started, like and, and why running? Like it's just one of those things that.

0:06:21 - (Julian): Fair warning, the answer is disappointing. Last year around this time, so around May June I did. I was really into fitness and health and then I disl in my shoulder and had nothing to decompress. So I started running at Parramatta park because I was the only movement I could do. And then I saw Sydney Run Club pop off and they were doing very well. They still are. And then I thought of the, the pun Marro Night Run Club while I was running because I have nothing else better to do with my mind while I lap Doyle ground and I thought, yeah, I'll do it. And then I was at Bella Vista Hotel with some CTR friends and I was like, we should start this. And they was like, yes, the name's funny, you should.

0:07:02 - (Julian): So I messaged my cousin that night, she made the logo and that was it. I started it because I was bored and I had a funny pun to put to the world. That was all it is. And I'm so sorry. It's disappointing. No, it's not.

0:07:15 - (Debbie): That's not disappointing at all. You've taken a mainstream thing and made it maronite and Maronites do it better anyway.

0:07:22 - (Julian): That's right, that's right. I mean we took all the running and just focused on eating and blew.

0:07:26 - (Jacinta): Up low key masters in eating club. But don't tell anyone a top secret, please.

0:07:33 - (Debbie): That was actually going to be my next question. Okay. It started off, you know, in such humble beginnings that you, you know, you've framed as disappointing. But I think it's, it's incredible the way you've done it. But you know, how's it gained momentum? How have you attracted people? It sounds like food's been a big one, but what else?

0:07:49 - (Julian): We started off with five. We had grown slowly from six to eight variable. When we started advertising, none of us run. 20 people rocked up.

0:07:59 - (Natalie): Don't worry, we don't run.

0:08:01 - (Debbie): We are, we're a run club that don't run. We can definitely eat.

0:08:04 - (Julian): So. So we should be the Mari Walk Club.

0:08:07 - (Debbie): Mara E Club.

0:08:08 - (Julian): Exactly right. So the only reason we're married at Run Club now is because it's just a funny name. That's all it is.

0:08:14 - (Debbie): So it's incredible how you, you know, the perception is it's running, it's intimidating. But you, you've disclosed that you don't run and suddenly that that changed the whole dynamic and it attracted more people.

0:08:27 - (Julian): It makes it more accessible. That's for sure.

0:08:30 - (D): Yeah.

0:08:30 - (Debbie): So tell me. I understand that you started off with five people.

0:08:34 - (D): Yeah.

0:08:35 - (Debbie): And now you're almost, you're almost at your one year anniversary celebration bell and me.

0:08:40 - (Julian): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:08:41 - (Debbie): So you know what's happened in that year? Like how have you evolved and what are your numbers like now?

0:08:46 - (Jacinta): Oh, okay. So now we are very blessed to have on average 30 runners and walkers turn up each week. And the journey to that, it's been a wild one. We go on tour now at least like once a month just to spice it up a little bit. Go to Bay Run. We went up to Terrigal as well, just for like a bit of a beach day for Australia Day. That was our on tour run, but did a few laps in the beach. No one drowned. Win.

0:09:17 - (Julian): Well, we've done a few things as well. We did the Dusk till Dawn Walk with UNICEF. We raised over $10,000 for the children in Gaza and South Lebanon, which is a big achievement for us. We also had, we did an asai.

0:09:30 - (Jacinta): Stall as well for St George's Carol December that just passed. So that was another experience, another badge of honor to add that you can run an ASY stall.

0:09:42 - (Julian): Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right out of the back of a Land Cruiser.

0:09:45 - (D): Yeah.

0:09:46 - (Julian): So it's been a wild one. We've been testing new things and always meeting new people. We've definitely made quite a cool group, which everyone's most welcome to come and be a part of.

0:09:55 - (Natalie): Can I just say, guys, you're contagious. Like, I live local to where you walk and long before I knew who you were, I would see this group of Lebanese looking people walk the park. And I was curious because, like, I'm a walker and who's walking these streets that I don't know about? Do you know what I mean?

0:10:13 - (Julian): Exactly. Right.

0:10:13 - (Natalie): So I look over and I go, they're looking Lebanese. And then week after week I'd see them and they're having so much fun. They're chatting, they're talking, they're walking side by side and they start to grow bigger and bigger in numbers. And then I saw someone like Maronite Run Club start to support Hill Sanctuary House on Instagram. I just saw you guys like a few things and I was like, I wonder if this is them.

0:10:34 - (Natalie): So a couple of weeks ago, I was walking through to. To go to the hairdresser and I saw everyone running kind of or walking slowly through the park and I was like, is this Maronite Run Club?

0:10:45 - (Debbie): Is this Maronite Run Club? And then like, yes, and walk with us.

0:10:48 - (Natalie): I said, no, no, no. I'm Too old. Too old. But I love what you guys are doing. I'm going to reach out so you guys can come onto the. To the podcast with us, because it is contagious. It gets your attention. I was just driving past, and, you know, we're busy. Like, it's not like these things usually catch our attention, but I could see this group culture just growing and growing, and it would always seem to be so positive.

0:11:10 - (Natalie): So I think what you guys are doing is amazing. And I'm sure that, you know, given the fact that Finding Sanctuary is about emotional health and mental wellbeing and breaking isolation, I could see that physically playing out when I was driving past. So do you guys have any stories about that? Do you feel like when you're walking, it's easier for people to start chatting about whatever they're going through? Get some advice?

0:11:36 - (Natalie): What. What have you experienced?

0:11:38 - (Jacinta): Oh, definitely. Saturday is kind of like a therapy session for a few of us. Have a few laps and just kind of like, be. Spend our week out, or if we've got, like, something that's going on, just get it out there. And also, it's, like, great for advice because everyone has different viewpoints, and there's a lot of things that, like, I personally may not have considered and, like, talking to my friends about it as we have our little lap around Doyle. And there's other insights that I'm like, okay, that's good to know. Thanks for opening my eyes. Like, thank you for this feedback. And it's important to have the foundation of people around, and it's our own little community within the community, so it doesn't matter. Like, no one's gonna judge you if you're. If you feel like you have, like, a bit of a weight on your chest. And it's like, I feel like this person's really gonna resonate with what I need to say.

0:12:27 - (Debbie): So thanks for that example. Thinking about, I understand you started this initially as a small group. Now you've grown. So for newcomers, that might be a bit intimidating that you're such a.

0:12:39 - (D): A bit.

0:12:39 - (Debbie): You know, a bit much bigger group. What would be a key message around anyone who's curious and who's racial profiling? Walkers like Natalie. She spotted racial profiling.

0:12:50 - (Natalie): I'm gonna add that to my list of.

0:12:51 - (Debbie): She's spotted a bunch of Middle Eastern appearance, apparently.

0:12:56 - (Julian): Were we wearing all black as well?

0:12:57 - (Natalie): Yes, you were.

0:12:58 - (Debbie): And then no stereotyping here or anything.

0:13:02 - (Julian): Checking a lot of boxes.

0:13:03 - (Debbie): Yes, there's plenty of us.

0:13:05 - (Jacinta): I would say just join. We've had multiple people who have turned up not knowing anyone at all and they've walked out with multiple new friends and they return and it's amazing. You don't need to know someone to join. We're all friendly bunch of people. There's a person for everyone, so just bite the bullet.

0:13:28 - (Debbie): Gillian, any tips?

0:13:30 - (Julian): Look, we have a very guidance for.

0:13:32 - (Debbie): New members or people curious.

0:13:34 - (Julian): Bring your Frank Green bottle and pair of hockers. We'll be there. We have a very encouraging group of people. The only reason this is successful is because I have people behind me like Jacinta. We have a few other crew as well. They're so supportive. They're always welcoming new people, they're bringing people along and it's always been a dominant effect. So I'm so grateful that we have people who see the potential and who are willing to be that open arms initially.

0:13:59 - (Julian): So if you want to come, just know you'll have just Cinta and other people racing after you to get to know you.

0:14:05 - (D): Yeah.

0:14:05 - (Julian): So that's exciting.

0:14:06 - (Debbie): And Jacintha is the walker, by the way. So don't worry about if you're fast. You don't need to worry. She may not catch up. I was thinking about that. You know, as you're exploring, you did mention the Run Club's like a bridge to the community and it's a community within a community. I think they're just such beautiful analogies. I'm wondering how has it changed your engagement in the church and in the parish life and in the faith?

0:14:34 - (Julian): Look, the biggest thing is how I didn't realize how many people needed a friend at the end of the day. So being more open and being willing to speak to more people opens up new doors for friendships and new bonds socially in the faith. Like going out to CTR or Our lady or wherever parish I'm at at the day, going to see new people. And the idea of maybe this person does need a new friend or maybe this person needs someone to speak to.

0:15:00 - (Julian): So expanding that idea outside of the Run Club and putting it to your Saturday 6:30 or 7:30, sorry, Sunday schedule. I think that's the best approach it's had and it's been so fulfilling to see people smile and people be happy to have a friend or people have someone to talk to. Because I know a lot of people that just stand outside after mass, after youth math and just sit and wait for something to happen.

0:15:24 - (Julian): I know there's a lot of parishes that do incredible work like inviting for dinner. So just having that friend to push them to go to the dinner and make connect with their greater community. That's the biggest change that's happened.

0:15:36 - (D): Yeah.

0:15:36 - (Debbie): That's really powerful. Thanks for sharing that. I think about, you know, as you. As you mentioned that we have had a lot of conversations here on the show around, you know, people feeling quite isolated and not feeling any connection or sense of belonging to the community because it's so intimidating, or they're on the outer. Or they don't belong to a big group already. And it sounds like this has helped you become more aware of that and recognizing that there's a lot of lonely, isolated people within our community.

0:16:05 - (Julian): That's right, yeah.

0:16:06 - (Debbie): And being able to, you know, reach out to them in. In such a positive way where, thank.

0:16:11 - (Julian): God, we're such a big community, like so easy to be drowned in it.

0:16:14 - (D): Yeah.

0:16:14 - (Julian): And you can get lost in it.

0:16:15 - (Debbie): Yeah, absolutely. I think about that because I actually had a conversation, a few, several. I know we had this in the pre meeting with my daughter, who she, you know, trying to get involved in the youth group. I was very heavily involved when I was back in the day and. But I had a large number of siblings and cousins and I also went to the Maronite school, which she hasn't. And she says, mum, it's different now. It's not the same.

0:16:45 - (Debbie): Like, I'm gonna go. I'm by myself. I don't have a whole village of people with me. And I hadn't really thought about that, to be honest. And as you said that it's quite confronting, realizing how things have changed. And for a lot of people, they don't have that community and connection and they do go alone to church, which I never did when I was your age.

0:17:05 - (Julian): Yeah, well, it's easy when you have your whole family around you. Like my half. My family goes to our. And so if I go to Our Lady, I've never lost. But I can understand how lonely and ostracizing it could be if you're just you. Sad to say, like, your faith is supposed to bring you to church, but obviously there's so much social influence, people just neglect it. So if we have people making you friends some way or some way, matter of form, they're back at their faith in no time. So that's the most important thing at the end of the day.

0:17:33 - (D): Yeah, yeah.

0:17:35 - (Debbie): And running, you know, what a beautiful concept. I mean, we're thinking about, you know, and probably talk a bit more about this because really that's been her vision around bringing. Combining the physical, the social, the emotional the spiritual together. And, and you've. I don't think we've had ever had a guest that directly integrates all of that in the way that you have through actual physical activity in such a beautiful way.

0:18:00 - (D): Yeah.

0:18:01 - (Natalie): Like, you know, the work that we're doing at Hill Sanctuary House is very much so about a mind, body, soul approach to healing. So as much as we, with many of the guests that we have, talk about how much therapy can help and heal, it is one part of the picture. And the other parts are our lifestyle, also our incidental methods of healing, like walking, walking with a friend, confiding in people, our nutrition, our sleep. There are so many parts of our life that impact our mental health and we need to start looking more broadly on how much that that impacts it.

0:18:41 - (Natalie): So the fact that you guys are incorporating spiritual, social, emotional and mental well being is just, it's inspirational to me. And I'm really proud of you guys because I. Even the moment I reached out to both you were so warm, so welcoming. Yeah, let's do it. We'll do it. And I just, I don't know, I'm proud of the youth, actually, because now.

0:19:07 - (Debbie): You just sound really old. I'm sorry.

0:19:09 - (Natalie): Oh, gosh.

0:19:10 - (Debbie): And I'm older than you, so turn it down, please.

0:19:13 - (Natalie): I have to tone it down. It's like my gray hairs are showing. And I am proud because it's not always the side of the youth that we get to see. Yeah, I think we are fed probably like a more negative side in terms of how the youth are tackling situations, levels of resilience and social interaction and the rest of it. And what I'm seeing visually with you guys is complete opposite. So I am proud. Sorry, at the risk of nothing to apologize about.

0:19:40 - (Julian): We're proud of you guys as well.

0:19:43 - (Debbie): One of the other things I was thinking about, I was curious to ask you about, we have the challenge of obviously technology and screens and over sort of indulgence in screens. Do you find that obviously in the run club you're running, so it would make it very tricky to engage in the screens. But do you find that, you know, that's, that's something that has been actually quite a good thing to pull people away from the screens that they have.

0:20:08 - (Debbie): Because I know I see groups, you know, going out and socializing, but everyone's on their phones, but you're running. So I guess you can't physically do. I mean, I know, I see, I do see people running with their phones, but.

0:20:18 - (Jacinta): No, definitely. It's a nice breakaway. And I'm the media coordinator on the day. And sometimes I'm like, oh, my goodness, I got a quick, quick, quick. Got to get the photos and videos in. Like, it's just so EAS to put your phone down for an hour or so. Even like afterwards when we go have like a bit of a coffee and breakfast. Half the time it's like, oh, my God.

0:20:38 - (D): You.

0:20:38 - (Jacinta): When you do pick up your phone, you're like, it is 12 o'. Clock. We got here at 9:45. Just time flies. It's good to have the nice detox.

0:20:49 - (D): Yeah.

0:20:49 - (Debbie): And just be surprised how much separation you can actually have from your phone.

0:20:53 - (Jacinta): Yeah, you can do it. You can.

0:20:56 - (Debbie): So I'm wondering if there's anything else that you want to share for our listeners, Someone who's curious about getting involved or even people from. I understand this is in Parramatta. I know you do your tours, but people from other parishes who want to get involved and perhaps start something, you know, locally within their setting, what are some of the things that they can do to get them started?

0:21:17 - (Debbie): What are your tips?

0:21:18 - (Julian): Always, just reach out and go for it. Honestly. If you need help, we're always here. If you have a crazy idea, just do it. Honestly. If you carry the cross in your heart and that's your intention, it will succeed. That's all it is. If your faith is there and your attention is there and you have people supporting you, there's no need to be scared. But the best thing about this initiative is that it's inter parish.

0:21:43 - (Julian): We're not really selected at one parish. Even though most of our group is CTR and L80, we're not held but down by one parish. So we do jump around. We did try and go to St. John the Beloved, but then it was rained out, so it's just devastating.

0:21:57 - (Jacinta): But we still had the breakfast.

0:21:59 - (Julian): We still ate. That was the most important part. We still ate. But the idea is, if this is an example to set for other communities to do their own thing, I'm so proud of that. And if other people take on this idea, take it forward and make sure the youth are connected. I'm so happy for that. So if both. If they want to do a run with us, reach out, we'll be more than welcome to run. Or walk. Or walk.

0:22:22 - (Debbie): Or eat.

0:22:23 - (Jacinta): Or eat. That's the most important part. We have people turn up after the fact just for the food. Food, yes.

0:22:30 - (Debbie): I mean, exactly.

0:22:32 - (Jacinta): Right.

0:22:32 - (Debbie): Totally understand that.

0:22:33 - (Julian): Why wouldn't you?

0:22:35 - (Debbie): Look, you know, it's been wonderful. Nat, is there anything else that you're curious about?

0:22:39 - (Natalie): Yeah, look, I just. Before we end, I know it's been quite positive, but part of the reason we asked you guys to come in is because you are representing the voice of the people your age. So we're just wondering, are there a few things in particular you're seeing come up a lot with the people your age that you're surrounded by? That is an issue that you feel needs attention, like from the community or in that broader kind of mental health sense. Like, is there something that you're seeing that's coming up that you're going, this needs attention. People need to know that this is happening.

0:23:13 - (Jacinta): I guess, like, something for us, like, we're just really lucky with the people that we have join us. Like, there hasn't been much of, like, a negative effect or we see, like, repetitiveness. Whether it be something like people these days are really down throughout the week. Like, whether it be like, work culture or during the week, it's like, do they have that social interactions and outside of work, do they have, like, their support network? Like, we're really lucky that a lot of people are.

0:23:44 - (Jacinta): Have their foundations built. And I don't know. I guess I got something.

0:23:50 - (Julian): It's going to be sad to say, but the fact this is working is a negative part. The fact that you need to organize laps around Parramatta park to make new friends is the negative part.

0:24:00 - (Natalie): Yeah, that's maybe not negative, but, like, the challenge, you know, like, it is a challenge because what you've done is that you've overcome this issue.

0:24:07 - (Julian): Yeah.

0:24:08 - (Natalie): By finding this solution.

0:24:09 - (Jacinta): So I guess, like, it's also, as I touched on earlier, like, it is hard to make friends when you're in your 20s, you're out of uni, you're into the real world. And it's nice to know that each week, like, you get to meet new people, build on your friendships. Like, I can tell you, hand on heart, I only knew Julian when I started with the wrong club and now I know everyone's names. So come on, guys. Need more people to come along so I can meet new people.

0:24:40 - (Julian): She's a fan favorite.

0:24:42 - (D): Yeah.

0:24:43 - (Debbie): It's interesting you say that. Gillian around. It's sad that we have to do this to create that sense of connection and community. And it's an area that I'm really curious about because, I mean, in the literature particularly, you know, in the current climate, we're much more sort of isolated. We don't have community in the way that we traditionally know community, especially in our culture where we're from a collectivist culture.

0:25:11 - (Debbie): You know, our parents are from villages. We were raised in the village environment. Well, they were, anyway. And then with migration, initially they were together and there was that strong connection. But then over time, people got more established. I mean, we lived with my cousins when we were kids, my first cousins. We had a small house with probably 15 of us now. That's virtually unheard of in our community. I know it still happens a lot in newer migrant communities where they're getting established. So I think it's a natural progression.

0:25:41 - (Debbie): With migration and also with technology evolving in the way that it has, the community is much more, in a way, become displaced.

0:25:49 - (Julian): That's right.

0:25:49 - (Debbie): And not as connected as perhaps we were or our culture was.

0:25:54 - (Julian): That's right.

0:25:54 - (D): Yeah.

0:25:55 - (Julian): Social media doesn't help, which is a big thing. I think we've forgotten what a human connection is at that point, but that's. We're just trying to rebuild that group mentality again, where you have people waiting for you, wanting to meet you, and you have people who are here for you. And that should be reflected in our church, which it is currently and consistently. You just need just that foundational friend group to get you started.

0:26:19 - (Debbie): Yeah, I think that's a very big. I mean, it's a beautiful example that often people forget what human connection feels like.

0:26:27 - (Julian): That's right. Yeah.

0:26:28 - (Debbie): I think that's a huge reality that we're grappling with across the globe, actually, not just in Australia.

0:26:34 - (Julian): We are so desensitized. It's so easy to think that a message on WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it is, is enough to maintain a connection or even FaceTime. That helps, but it doesn't.

0:26:46 - (D): Yeah.

0:26:46 - (Debbie): And I think we. We trick ourselves into thinking we have connections, you know, but they're artificial ones. That's right.

0:26:54 - (Julian): Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

0:26:55 - (Debbie): You know, it's incredible what you're doing. Reconnecting with the basics, you know, humans coming together, walking together, running together, doing what we were designed to do, really.

0:27:06 - (Julian): Exactly. Right. That's the part.

0:27:09 - (D): Yeah.

0:27:10 - (Julian): But then I think that latches on to your question about what's the biggest negative we've faced, is the fact that we. The realization of that lack of human connection.

0:27:18 - (Debbie): Yeah, I think that's.

0:27:19 - (D): That's.

0:27:19 - (Debbie): That's massive. And I think that's a. That's a beautiful sort of example of really why we started, too, in the podcast. Be creative in the mediums that we have to connect and reach out with people that are isolated and that haven't heard other people's stories and experiences because they just simply don't have conversations in the way that they used to.

0:27:40 - (D): Yeah.

0:27:41 - (Debbie): Like our phone, home phone never rings ever. Like, if it does, it's a, you know, spam call. Spam call. Whereas I remember growing up, we had a home phone and my friends would ring and my mum would have a 20 minute screening conversation before I got the phone.

0:27:55 - (D): Yeah, yeah.

0:27:55 - (Natalie): And then you'd all fight over the phone, like, get off the phone, I want to call my friend.

0:27:59 - (D): Yeah.

0:28:00 - (Debbie): So just those things of, you know, often. And I don't, I don't actually. My kids just text. They don't have conversations with their friends on the phone.

0:28:07 - (D): Yeah.

0:28:07 - (Debbie): So just, you know, hearing those conversations, connecting in person, in real life, things that we've had to create now.

0:28:15 - (Julian): Yeah, yeah.

0:28:16 - (Debbie): So I can understand why you say it's a little bit sad thinking about it that way.

0:28:20 - (D): Yeah.

0:28:20 - (Julian): But it's always fun.

0:28:21 - (D): Yeah.

0:28:21 - (Julian): At the end of the day. But the idea that somebody had to intervene was the problem.

0:28:27 - (Debbie): Well, thank you. You know, just wondered whether you had any parting wisdom or any messages you'd like to leave us with.