Finding Healing: Gang Life, Addiction and Redemption - Andrew Condoleon

Key Takeaways:

• The critical role of securing a sense of belonging and acceptance in shaping one’s identity and choices.
• How Andrew’s journey illustrates the deep links between trauma, addiction, and the search for masculine identity.
• The importance of seeking spiritual guidance and community support in overcoming personal challenges.
• The concept of “I am” and its influence on personal identity and behavior as demonstrated through Andrew’s transformation.
• A message of hope: It is possible to reinvent oneself and align with a healthier and fulfilling path, even after hitting rock bottom.

Notable Quotes:

• "I felt safer in a gang than I did at home, which is disordered when you look back at it."
• "Addictions are a trauma response to our sorrowful mysteries."
• "The identity then forms our habits, and then those habits reinforce the identity."
• "I had this desire to seek, to go on a quest to answer this question [about the meaning of life]."
• "If I go out and do xyz, I feel guilty about it. And that's a good thing because then I'm drawn to come back to try to stop that habit."

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Transcript

0:00:00 - (Natalie Moujalli): This episode deals with issues such as substance abuse, suicide, and extreme violence. If you're struggling with any of these topics, please head to Lifeline.

0:00:10 - (Andrew Condolean): There's this whole theme of masculinity, and here we are, a group of broken boys, and we'd be looking, you know, to go out and go to war, talk about dopamine. Like, it's like you go out and you fight with the boys, you know, like go back to your apartment or house and you're bloodied and bruised. And I know that that just bonds men even more, and it's a distorted way to bond. But we bonded even closer and that reinforced the identity of I'm a gangster now.

0:00:42 - (C): Welcome to Finding Sanctuary. Our shared conversations into how we think and feel and how we find peace and comfort in daily life. We get together with experts to chat about all things mental health, getting insights and understanding on the struggles of.

0:01:00 - (Eddie Reaiche): Welcome to another riveting episode of Finding Sanctuary. My name's Eddie Reich. As an extension to our previous podcast on masculinity and how we approach masculinity and how a lot of our life experience dictates who we are, I'm joined with Natalie Majali.

0:01:17 - (Natalie Moujalli): Hi, Eddie.

0:01:18 - (Eddie Reaiche): Hi, masculinity. Natalie has nothing in common, but we'll just have her here anyway. And Andrew Condolian, who going to share with us his journey on his life experiences and a lot of the challenges he's had along the way to get to where he is now. And I can't wait for our listeners to listen to exactly what you went through. So I'm hoping you can take it away from here.

0:01:42 - (Andrew Condolean): Okay, well, thanks for having me, everyone, and it's a pleasure to be on the podcast. Yeah, essentially, I mean, I come from. I don't come from an academic background or a theological background, but I do have real world experience. So hopefully my story can resonate with some people in your audience and in terms of, you know, the theme of belonging in a family, and in my case, it was a broken family.

0:02:07 - (Andrew Condolean): In my childhood, I was born and raised for a period of time in country New South Wales, and life was pretty good until my parents separated when I was about 4. And that was the kind of the beginning of the shattering of the family framework and security there. I was raised by my grandparents for a period of time, and that was pretty sweet and I love them for that. Eventually I ended up just with my dad, and he was a single dad and I got pretty good at tennis and that was cool because I wanted to make dad proud and that was A way it was kind of military style training. So tennis was two hours in the morning before school, three hours at night after school with no social life. And it got pretty hard. So I had this love hate relationship with tennis, to be honest.

0:02:54 - (Andrew Condolean): But again, now, retrospectively looking at it, it's like I just wanted to please dad and this is the way I do that. And he loved me more because of it and I was winning. And so I was on this path, pretty serious path, from the age of 6 to the age of 12. That's when my mum, she got remarried to a fella in Darwin. And that's the beginning of this, this custody battle. And it got pretty messy to the point where, you know, I was forced to lie to my dad by my stepfather and that was pretty psychologically traumatic.

0:03:27 - (Andrew Condolean): I complied with that lie and ended up back with my mum. Broke my dad's heart, that whole thing with tennis and this new identity was formed that, you know, I'm a liar, I'm not worthy and I'm not good enough. So I ended up with Mum and that was just a. I could be a kid again. So it was a bittersweet because I was able to have fun because this wasn't a disciplined lifestyle anymore. And which child doesn't want to be with their mum, you know, which child doesn't want to be with their mum and dad? But, you know, I could spend time with mum. But that relationship in Darwin, my mum and my stepfather didn't last long and we ended up back in Sydney and landed in sunny Coogee Beach. And so life there was pretty good.

0:04:07 - (Andrew Condolean): Mum had a successful business, my mum had cafes and in hospitality, ended up going to school in Randwick by the Maris Brothers. And that was a pretty cool experience, bar one, pretty bad experience. And it was a bully and it was a racial attack based on my ethnicity. And I think I held that inside pretty deep down. And then I just kind of cruised along during that time. Maybe some of your audience can remember the time of Tupac and Biggie and that east coast, west coast, such a provocative.

0:04:41 - (Andrew Condolean): That was a very unique era. I was very influenced by that culture. And so, yeah, that whole thing of money, power, respect and that yearning for that kind of success in the world. And then, yeah, so I graduated from high school and by then I'd had my. Had this experience with my second stepfather and the whole thing about security in the family unit was pretty much out the window. And, you know, I was a terrible stepson by that stage.

0:05:10 - (Andrew Condolean): We had a moment where we Had a fight, and then it was just an easy out. And I was just like, I'm leaving home now at the age of 17, I think. And it broke my heart because I had two little brothers who were just adorable, and they were innocent to all of this. And that was kind of my pull. I was like. Felt really guilty and then embedded that shame and guilt because I just abandoned my little brothers who had nothing to do with any of this.

0:05:35 - (Andrew Condolean): So it was a bit of that. I held that inside as well. In that era, I think it was the year 2000, the Asian gang culture was pretty. Was out on the streets, essentially. And there was some provocative movies that were released in the Hong Kong film industry that was really influential on me and other guys as well. And one charismatic friend of mine invited me in to join, and it was an easy one. I was like, yeah, Hell, yeah.

0:06:01 - (Andrew Condolean): And I think the underlying core theme here is that common yearning for the human person to belong, to feel accepted, to have a tribe that they feel like they this. And I think it all boils down to safety. I felt safer in a gang than I did at home, which is disordered when you look back at it. But I think there's something to look at there. Yeah. So I had this common yearning, and we would go out, and it started off with petty crime and petty theft, but obviously that escalated and we were seeking more. And, you know, it's this whole theme of masculinity.

0:06:36 - (Andrew Condolean): And here we are, a group of broken boys, broken young men, and we'd be looking, you know, to go out and go to war, right? So we'd go out and be so proud of ourselves, and we want to go fight. And then, you know, talk about dopamine. Like, it's like you go out and you fight with the boys, you know, like the boys and go back to your apartment or house, and you're bloodied and bruised. And I know that that just bonds men even more, and it's a distorted way to bond.

0:07:03 - (Andrew Condolean): But again, that's something that I experienced, and we bonded even closer, and that reinforced the identity of, I'm a gangster now. And they say the two most powerful words potentially are the words I am, and whatever follows that. And so it's like, well, I am a gangster. That identity then forms our habits, and then those habits reinforce the identity. And then you're with the group of men in this distorted world, and it just. Yeah. So from there, things escalated, and I met a group of pretty hardcore men in the Vietnamese community, and then, yeah, that just escalated. And essentially I achieved the money, the power, the respect, you know, the girls and all of that stuff. And then I feel like I hit the roof. I hit the roof and I was like, what? Now I heard a beautiful quote that talks about addiction in the theme of addiction. And I'm going to lead into that and how I became an addiction from Sister Miriam James Heinlein.

0:08:02 - (Andrew Condolean): And she mentions that addictions are a trauma response to our sorrowful mysteries. And I think at that time, I think I was 25, 26, I'd decided to, I guess numb, I think there's a word, numb myself with a substance that I had access to. And alcohol was a given. But then, unfortunately, I got into the drug ice, which when you take ice, you don't sleep, you don't eat properly. It's completely counter to what I value now, which is, you know, health.

0:08:37 - (Andrew Condolean): Holistic health. Yeah. From there it was just this train to one destination. It's either jail or death. And so, yeah, I started to numb myself. And I got to a point where I call it a holy moment now, because I got a rock bottom moment where I just wanted to basically got to a point where I wanted to end it all. And by the grace of God, I didn't. Only from there, I started to ask a very serious question for the first time, was, what is the meaning of life?

0:09:07 - (Andrew Condolean): So I was kind of stripped down, you know, spiritually naked, emotionally naked. But I had this desire to seek to go on a quest to answer this question. And so I did. You know, I was talking about how nature and the design of nature was a big draw card for me. You know, my then girlfriend and now wife. Yeah, she just thought I was crazy. And I don't blame her. Here's a challenge for your audience. Go look at your tree and just stare at it and go, wow, thank you. Because you're giving me oxygen and you're taking my CO2, and there's this natural system, whether or not I exist or not, that's working.

0:09:42 - (Andrew Condolean): And so I didn't believe in God, but then I started to have this openness to a divine architect, some kind of thoughtful designer. And that made sense to me.

0:09:52 - (Natalie Moujalli): Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us, Andrew. It's really. It's quite an incredible story to hear. I just want to take you back. You said something about a liar was born and someone who wasn't worthy. How did that impact the rest of your journey? Because it sounds like that was a pivotal moment for you.

0:10:11 - (Andrew Condolean): Yes, it was definitely just distrust in Myself. And then I had no other model to really test that on because I didn't have a father figure that I trusted. And talk about masculinity, just thinking about the importance of a role of a father, I guess it started to eat away at me. And then everything that I did, I didn't really feel secure in public speaking at school. I was very insecure, very shy. But yeah, never really sure of myself, never really grounded.

0:10:41 - (Eddie Reaiche): The word that kept coming around in my mind when I was listening was resilience. Because the challenges that you went through throughout your life and you kept bouncing back. Even though you felt like you hit rock bottom, you still bounced back. I think it's a credit to you to be on something like ice and managing to get through that. A lot of people aren't that lucky. And then in the end to find Christ and find purpose and meaning in your life.

0:11:09 - (Eddie Reaiche): The question I have for you is you've never had a proper role model for a father. So what sort of father do you think you're going to be?

0:11:18 - (Andrew Condolean): Yeah, that's a great question. And the whole concept of now that I am a father, but back then when I wasn't was like, I can't do this. There's no way. And what comes up right now is that, yeah, I just needed a father that I could ground myself with. And that's how I found God the father. Because I found through my. My wife. We found through Romans chapter 8:15, that we've all been adopted as sons and daughters of God.

0:11:46 - (Andrew Condolean): And that came through in a supernatural way through my. My now wife. And that's for her too, not just for me, because she's a daughter of God. But, yeah, essentially I realized, wow, okay, God the father, this concept, he can be like an anchor, like a lighthouse that's there doesn't force me to come, but shines a light on the way, the better way. And here I am in my little boat without a rudder, just slamming, sinning and destroying, like harming myself and others.

0:12:15 - (Andrew Condolean): But what if I could ground my. I could ground myself on a father that doesn't move. Because I've had fathers that are coming and out of my life. And so that grounding was, I think, the origin point of me believing that, oh, now I'm identifying myself. The I am shifts from all different types to now I am a child of God. So how do I behave as a child of God? And so it's that whole loop again, the identity to habits. And then I'm like, well, God has a vision for me to become a better version of myself, whatever that looks like, and that doesn't involve drugs anymore.

0:12:53 - (Andrew Condolean): The boys, that was probably the hardest thing, leaving the brothers because they were like family and they all thought I was crazy. Everyone thought I was crazy, but then that's a part of it. But from there I found a model. And then I found it in the Christian worldview. I used the Ten Commandments as a model. I had some beautiful spiritual directors and priests that guided me through an examination of conscience, which I think is just a beautiful model to challenge us to become a better version of ourself.

0:13:23 - (Andrew Condolean): And like I said, I use that model because I didn't trust people anymore. Because, you know, that whole gangster life is all about betrayal and greed. And I didn't trust, you know, the family kind of context. So I could trust this model and just kept moving forward with that.

0:13:40 - (Eddie Reaiche): I'm really fascinated because I think you're so lucky in that you have this perspective where you want to search for the right way to be a good dad. All the other dads that I know are just knee jerk dads. It's just instinct. It's what I was taught because they observed it, they lived it, and that's how dad must be. And you've looked at all different types of dads and you've actually gone to search with what is the best dad or what is the best version I can be of myself.

0:14:10 - (Eddie Reaiche): And it's so many times now that I'm starting to see people who come from broken homes who feel there is a better way. They may not have received it themselves, but they're going to make sure that their children don't miss out on what a proper dad is. And I think that's really important. That's a great message that you've brought across to everybody who's listening right now that you can reinvent yourself anytime.

0:14:33 - (Eddie Reaiche): It's never too late. And it's really important to sort of show your kids that you can be a good dad. It doesn't matter that you didn't have the best dad to guide you, but we have better opportunities now where we can be smarter on how we. Father, that rhymed.

0:14:50 - (Natalie Moujalli): It did. You are the master of the rhymes.

0:14:53 - (Eddie Reaiche): I am.

0:14:55 - (Natalie Moujalli): I agree with you, Eddie. That's such an amazing thing to watch and hear from you. Hearing you talk about leaving the boys and how hard that was because you belong to that family and then choosing to belong to the family of God. It's inspirational. And I'm sure that that was so much hard work, Were you able to receive psychological support throughout that?

0:15:20 - (Andrew Condolean): So not. Not specific, like therapy. Psychologically, I was too. I don't know, insecure about going out to seek help.

0:15:29 - (Natalie Moujalli): Yeah.

0:15:29 - (Andrew Condolean): And which is why I said, like, with literature, it doesn't talk back. And I can. I can read and then make sense of it in my own head. But again, we distort, generalize, and delete things. And, you know, but it was a start. But essentially it was the sacrament of healing. It was going to confession and using that as a framework. And that was, like, my way I see it, like, to psychologically come face to face with, oh, this is wrong.

0:16:00 - (Andrew Condolean): Whereas in the past, I never. I didn't have any guilt towards that X, Y, and Z. Whereas now I'm like, well, okay, I feel guilty, but it's important because to note that this is a good guilt because now I'm like, if I go out and do xyz, I feel guilty about it. And that's a good thing because then I'm drawn to come back to try to stop that habit.

0:16:27 - (Natalie Moujalli): How important do you feel the concept of belonging is or how much of a role do you think that that's played in your journey? Like, the need to belong?

0:16:36 - (Andrew Condolean): I think it's a fundamental human emotional need. You know, we've got our physical needs, which is food, water, air, but there's this invisible force which is love. Yeah. That's fundamental to life. Because if, like, I don't know, it's just random thought, like, I was just going to the gym, like, I get to. I'm, like, feeling all down and out. But then as soon as I make that initial connection with that one person I'm familiar with, the energy just rises, you know, and of course, that, you know, I'm talking within the family, my kids, my wife, you know, like, it's just this belonging and the healing is within my own family because I've seen the model and like, I've heard in your previous podcast that, you know, our parents do their best with what they've got, and that's where I've come to forgiveness as well, through these sacraments or this forgiveness of understanding that they're doing the best with what they've got and. And truly coming to terms with that.

0:17:30 - (Andrew Condolean): But now, you know, being able to completely heal as a father and to give them a model that I didn't get and that giving that sense of belonging to them. But it's synergistic, so it's vital.

0:17:45 - (Eddie Reaiche): Andrea, I was really curious about. You said that you had an addiction with ice. How did you get over the addiction? Wow.

0:17:53 - (Andrew Condolean): There's so much to unpack in that. I was aware of the destructive nature of it. And it was that. It was that rock bottom moment. Yeah. Where I kind of felt like I lost it all and I knew this was a part of it. And so, yeah, it was that. Just seeking that. Going on the quest for. To find the meaning of life without that. But it wasn't like a overnight thing, you know, it took years to actually fully recover from it.

0:18:20 - (Andrew Condolean): But I mean, I look back and I probably should have gone to rehab or whatnot, but I didn't have a community around me, I guess. And not to blame anyone else, but I didn't seek it either. Yeah, it would have been probably a quicker path, but it took a lot longer. And like I said, like, I actually just used the sacrament, used like access, the sacrament of confession consistently and had a beautiful priest that was like my spiritual doctor.

0:18:47 - (Andrew Condolean): And he was telling me that God loves you, keep coming back. He has a plan for you, you know, the kerygma, the basic character. He would just repeat that and send. And then he'd be like, stop it. You know, like, as well. Like, he'll tell me, you know, So I was seeking role models that were helping me become better. And that's how I became a better version of myself. And I came across some literature that, that had that, you know, the fundamental principle even now is, you know, the question is, and I tell this to my kids, am I becoming a better version of myself or a lesser version of myself?

0:19:20 - (Andrew Condolean): And that's the fundamental question I ask in every aspect. Smoking ICE was just not going to do that.

0:19:27 - (Eddie Reaiche): That's really interesting because a lot of our listeners, some have issues or family with issues with addiction and all struggling. And a lot of the problems with addiction is relapse. And so a lot of people are actually condemned when they relapse. They're not taken in and sort of said, that's okay, you've made it this far. Just get up and keep going. And that message isn't rammed home. And so everyone starts feeling guilty and shameful, and so that just leads them to more addiction.

0:19:59 - (Eddie Reaiche): What you're showing is it's not a matter that people can do it without seeking help, but it can be done in the end. Yours was just a long path to get there with therapy, we could probably do it a lot quicker. And I think that's important for our listeners to understand. You did take the long way around, but you got there and that shows hope that it's possible. And I think that's a message we really have to show our listeners as well.

0:20:25 - (Eddie Reaiche): Because eventually sometimes if you want it bad enough, you will do it, but you just have to be strong enough in your conviction. It's the way I hear it.

0:20:35 - (Andrew Condolean): Yeah, yeah. Totally agree. And I think going to therapy, it just yet condenses time. You know, it's a similar principle to person. Like if you go to a personal trainer, you want to lose weight, they'll. The coach, a good coach will help condense time. You know, you can get there, you know, in 10 years, but if you have a good mentor or coach, you can get there within a year, perhaps. Yeah.

0:20:56 - (Eddie Reaiche): I wonder, Andrew, with all your experience that you've had, what's the message you want to really share with our listeners?

0:21:04 - (Andrew Condolean): If you're struggling with addiction or if you know somebody. Yeah. The message of hope, that there is hope. And I think it's important to share your story and what you're going through with someone that you trust. And if you can't find someone that you can trust to go out to a professional and get that out, you know, get your story out and start to articulate that for yourself and then identify your limiting beliefs, any of that. And then really come face to face and look at yourself in the mirror and then look at the color of your eyes, like really look at yourself. That you are worthy, that you are loved, you are worthy, you are good enough, and you are special and that God loves you and has a plan for you.

0:21:48 - (Natalie Moujalli): Thank you for sharing your story with us and thank you for trusting us to be vulnerable and open. And I think you've inspired a lot of people in this episode. And, you know, we knew that would happen when we got you behind the microphone. For those listening that are struggling to reach out and find help wherever you can and however you can. Because listening to Andrew's story, we can see that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that you can reinvent yourself. As you said, Eddie, your story was.

0:22:23 - (Eddie Reaiche): Nothing short of inspiring. I really mean that. I think it was great to hear how somebody can go from one way in their life and be hit with just about every challenge there is, particularly growing up in our vulnerable years, which normally would dictate how we're going to turn out. And you were down that road and you managed to get through that and then come back. And that resilience shone so much, and I think it teaches us so much on what we can achieve if.

0:22:52 - (Eddie Reaiche): If we really put our mind to it. So I really want to thank you for joining us today.

0:22:56 - (Andrew Condolean): Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

0:23:04 - (C): I hope this episode has helped you find sanctuary in this exciting journey of life. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are found in the podcast Notes. If you need some assistance with any of the topics discussed in today's episode, then please Visit our website HSHL.org au if you have any thoughts, comments or ideas, please leave us a comment on Spotify. Alternatively, send us an email@adminshl.org

0:23:33 - (C): au you& your mental health matters to us, and we hope you get one step closer in finding sanctuary. Bye for now.