Beyond Presents: Redefining the Spirit of Christmas Through Generosity - Helena Roumanus

About the Guest:

Helena Roumanus: Helena Roumanus is very involved in community service and is known for her passionate commitment to helping those in need. She has been instrumental in organizing charitable activities, particularly around Christmas, where she engages friends and family to support young mothers and children in crisis shelters. Helena is a dedicated wife and mother of four, balancing her family responsibilities with her community endeavors to uplift and support those less fortunate.

Key Takeaways:

• Transformative Charity: Helena Roumanus shares how she shifted her family's Christmas tradition from receiving multiple gifts to donating to crisis shelters for young mothers, highlighting the positive impact of focused community efforts.
• Gratitude as Action: The episode emphasizes not just being thankful but acting on that gratitude by giving back to those less fortunate, making a difference in their lives.
• Community Involvement: By rallying friends and family, Helena created a ripple effect, showing how collective small efforts can lead to significant change.
• Conversations with Children: Helena uses these charitable activities to open dialogues with her children about social issues, helping them grow empathetic and aware.
• Mindful Pause in Festive Rush: The discussion encourages listeners to pause during the busy holiday season, reflecting on how they can contribute positively to their community.

Notable Quotes:

• "If it's for the kingdom, you gotta say yes." – Helena Roumanus
• "You can't practice gratitude at top speed." – Helena Roumanus
• "Having a roof over your head is a privilege." – Helena Roumanus
• "I want to be part of the conversation too." – Helena Roumanus
• "It's important that our kids know that we're doing this too." – Helena Roumanus

For more information on the Hills Sanctuary House visit our website https://hshl.org.au/
You and your mental health is important to us.
Please visit https://hshl.org.au/wp/help-resources/ for help and resources

Do subscribe to this podcast to get the latest episodes of Finding Sanctuary.

Follow us on
Facebook - Christ the Redeemer Maronite Catholic Parish of The Hills
Instagram - @hills_sanctuary_house
Blog - https://hshl.org.au/blog/

Transcript

0:00:04 - (Debbie Draybi): Welcome to Finding Sanctuary. Our shared conversations into how we think and feel and how we find peace and comfort in daily life. We get together with experts to chat about all things mental health, getting insights and understanding on the struggles of life. My name is Debbie Draby and I'm a psychologist and a proud Maronite woman and a mother of three children. And I'm passionate about bringing people together to share their stories, to support each other through life and all this beauty and all its pain.

0:00:32 - (Debbie Draybi): I look forward to hearing from you in this podcast series as we engage in conversations around our shared experiences as a community. We love to hear what you think of the podcast. So please subscribe, share like and comment wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to another episode of Finding Sanctuary. Really excited today as we work tirelessly and towards the end of the year, it's been a frantic rush.

0:01:05 - (Debbie Draybi): We're gonna take a pause and have a bit of a reflection as we're coming towards the end of the year and we're wrapping up an incredible year for our podcast. We've got a special guest with us today. So we've got a special guest with us today, Helena Romanos. I mean, I think it's wonderful that she's joining us, particularly as we're reflecting and thinking about wrapping up for the year, because I just wanna tell you a bit of a story about Helena and how we.

0:01:31 - (Debbie Draybi): And she's been quite instrumental in the development of this podcast because, you know, out of one conversation and asking a simple question that Natalie did, Helena led us to our wonderful producer, Derek. And so we just have this great opportunity to come together and to have Helena with us today to really talk about her story and her journey in life. And of course, we've got Monsignor with us again, which is wonderful as we wrap up. I think it's beautiful that you're here and you've been sitting alongside me all year, Mons. And it's just been a beautiful, wonderful opportunity to have and continue to share these conversations with you.

0:02:10 - (Monsignor Shora): Thank you. Good to be here.

0:02:11 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah.

0:02:12 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah.

0:02:13 - (Debbie Draybi): So welcome, Helena.

0:02:14 - (Helena Romanous): Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm very happy to be here. Can I tell you something? I get a message from my friend Natalie saying we're looking to do a podcast at Hill Sanctuary House. Do you know anyone? And I happened to be working at a Christian media organization at the time. So I walked down the hallway and I knock on the door of my good friend Derek and I said, hey, he just wanted to know, do you know anyone who does this podcast production stuff outside of work or do you do it, you know, outside of work? And he said, why? What's up? And I told him. I said, oh, my church's got this hill sanctuary house, and they're doing this great work. They want to do a podcast.

0:02:44 - (Helena Romanous): And he's like, for the Kingdom? Yes, I'm in. And I was like, what? He's like, no, no, if it's for the kingdom, I'll do it. Give him my number. I'll take care of it. And I sent Derek's number to Natalie, and then Finding Sanctuary was born. But we took that message for the Kingdom on for years now. So me and my friends has become a motto in our group. Whenever we're being. We want to encourage each other to do something for someone. We say, do it for the Kingdom.

0:03:11 - (Helena Romanous): That's our tagline now. Thank you, Derek. It's for the Kingdom. So when you're like, oh, should I do it? If it's for the kingdom, you gotta say yes.

0:03:19 - (Monsignor Shora): Oh, wow.

0:03:20 - (Helena Romanous): So it's your new tagline.

0:03:21 - (Debbie Draybi): Yes. Oh, that's beautiful. And I think we're gonna. Where have you been hiding that one, Derek? We've not heard it before. We've talked a lot in this podcast around thinking about coming together in our community and our collective responsibility for each other and supporting each other. So I'm loving that tagline for the Kingdom, and I think we're gonna definitely use it to.

0:03:41 - (Monsignor Shora): Well, our parish purpose statement is building up disciples on fire for the Kingdom. So you've. He's just given us. That's all I'm gonna say. For the Kingdom.

0:03:49 - (Helena Romanous): I'm not saying Monsignor copied Derek, but I'm not not saying it either. You know what I mean? Who said it first?

0:03:55 - (Debbie Draybi): Who said it first?

0:03:55 - (Helena Romanous): I don't know. We'll leave it to the crowds to decide.

0:03:58 - (Debbie Draybi): Beautiful.

0:03:58 - (Monsignor Shora): Wow, that's great.

0:03:59 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, I know. We've had conversations on the sideline at footy and soccer and all the other things that our kids do. I just want to disclose that way. Our kids have been to the same school, and we know each other that way, too, and so it's just nice to have this conversation behind the microphone. We've had chats about the podcasts as well, and I think that the thing that stood out for me is, even from first meeting you, your incredible energy, your passion for life, and the positivity that you constantly demonstrate. And I think it's so engaging, and we're really excited to be talking to you about your experiences and, you know, things that have led you to do the things that you do in life, whether it's as a mum and even in your professional life. I know you do an incredible amount for the community.

0:04:43 - (Debbie Draybi): I mean, bringing people together and supporting those less fortunate. And we thought it's a really timely conversation to have about sharing and coming together and supporting others less fortunate than us, particularly during these hard times. So, Helena, I'm wondering if you can tell me a little bit about. I know we've been talking in preparation for this conversation about Christmas and the importance of coming together and gift giving and what that's meant for you and your family and how things have shifted a little bit and you've created a whole new dynamic at Christmas time for your family and for your kids.

0:05:17 - (Helena Romanous): Yeah, sure. Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year, as the marketers always tell us. And it's a time in our community, especially where we are very generous, where we are always, you know, celebrating, coming together with families. We're giving gifts and we're receiving gifts. And I'm very blessed to be a mum of four kids. And when my kids were really young, they were so spoiled, you know, by our big families, both on my side and my husband's side.

0:05:47 - (Helena Romanous): Everyone was so excited to bless them at Christmas time with a gift. You know, they would go out and they'd purchase something very special for them and go home and wrap it and give it to them. And they had very big hearts and good intentions in giving my kids gifts. But what happened is, because we're both from such big families, this Christmas night we would come home and we'd unload the tarrago and we'd have, you know, multiple, multiple gifts for each child.

0:06:12 - (Helena Romanous): I remember some Christmases, we'd go home in between the relatives, and we'd unload one boot full of Christmas gifts to go over to the next family because we knew we couldn't stack it all. So the kids who were coming home with so much gifts, you know, we'd unpack and we'd sort and we'd say, okay, we'll pack this one away, we'll put it at the top of the cupboard and we'll play with that later. And next Christmas would come and that gift would still be at the top of the cupboard, right?

0:06:34 - (Helena Romanous): And as good intended everyone was, it was so wasteful in my eyes. After a number of years, by the time we got to baby number four, I was like, this is too much. My kids don't need this. You know, this isn't even what we celebrate. Christmas For. And I know everyone means well, but I was starting to feel really guilty about it. And I was participating in it, too, right? So. Cause I'm also going out and buying gifts for all my nieces and nephews, and, you know, every person I can think of wanting to be part of it.

0:07:05 - (Helena Romanous): But I remember there was one year where I thought to myself, I don't want to do this. You know, I don't want to go out and buy 26 kids gifts that they don't need, because I know that my kids don't need anymore. And I remember sending a text message to a group of friends, and I said, hey, I was wondering if this year, instead of buying each other's kids gifts, why don't we find a family in need and let's. Instead of purchasing gifts for each other, let's give some gifts to that family. Like, let's bless them instead.

0:07:37 - (Helena Romanous): There was maybe seven or eight friends in the group chat that I messaged, and they all responded immediately like, yes. I mean, that's a great idea. I started doing some research, and I thought, who can I call? I thought, maybe I'll call the church and I'll see. Is there a family in the community that needs. And within. Within half an hour, an hour, I had found a local shelter that was maybe 25 minutes from home.

0:08:00 - (Helena Romanous): It was a crisis pregnancy shelter for young homeless women from, like, 16 to 25. And I just picked up the phone and gave them a call, and I asked, hey, I'm wondering if you take any donations at Christmas time? And they were like, oh, yeah, sure. What were you thinking? I'm like, well, how many moms have you got there, like? And she said, we've got about eight or nine moms with young babies, and some are pregnant.

0:08:23 - (Helena Romanous): I said, okay, well, could I arrange to bring Christmas gifts for them? You know, for the moms and kids? They're like, are you sure? They're like, yeah, absolutely. I sent the message out, and then I sent a couple more relatives, and I said, spread it around, whoever you think might be interested. And that year, my whole living room was full. We had no space to sit on the floor. The couches were full. We had a whole room filled. People brought nappies, bought boxes of groceries.

0:08:46 - (Helena Romanous): We had gifts for every mom, gifts for the children. We wrapped, we labeled them, we drove them up, we delivered it. I remember getting there that first year, and the caseworkers came out, and we helped them unload and bring it in. And they started telling us the stories about the women that these Gifts were going to. And we were so emotional because we were excited to be just being charitable and giving to someone in need. And that's all it was in our heads. It's someone in need, you know.

0:09:10 - (Helena Romanous): But then we sat there with the caseworkers and we heard the real life stories of these real struggles from these real young vulnerable women. And we're like, this is going to be an actual blessing. This is what it means to give at Christmas. And from there, you know, we came home and were like, that's it. This is our new Christmas tradition. And every now it's been, I think about seven or eight years. We've done it year on year and crisis centre is a small one. So some years we're taking care of nine families. Sometimes we're taking care of 16, 17 families.

0:09:41 - (Helena Romanous): But every year more and more people come on board. Every year my living room is full and overflowing. And every year, you know, it's, I can just warms my heart to be able to do something for someone who actually needs it.

0:09:55 - (Debbie Draybi): Oh, what a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that with us. You know, as I'm listening, I'm imagining these young women in the shelters receiving the incredible gifts that you're sharing with them. And I guess what I'm hearing is an idea turned into a reality. And you really invited a whole community to share with you and to connect with those less fortunate than us and being able to have a good sense of, you know, the reality of their lives and their hardship and to know a little bit about their stories.

0:10:26 - (Debbie Draybi): You know, how incredible is that?

0:10:29 - (Helena Romanous): The thing that struck me, I think that first year and every year since I've been back has been what Christmas Day looks like for these families. For me, Christmas is so special, right, because of my faith. It has a real power to that day for me, that celebration. But also because it's a day of family. It's a day where everyone pauses, everyone stops and the whole extended family comes together and you eat.

0:10:52 - (Helena Romanous): And in our community, we don't eat. We feast and we feast from breakfast to brunch to lunch to afternoon tea to dinner. You know, we feast and feast for 48 hours. And these women, the reality for them was that Christmas Day was going to be isolated, that they did not have family, that they did not have friends. I remember getting really emotional that first year when the caseworker said to me that I asked, so what do they do on Christmas Day? Where do they go? Who are they with? And talking about their gifts, do they have contact with their family. And she was like, this is the only gift they're getting, the gifts that you've brought. This is the gift that, that mom's gonna unwrap. And I was thinking about all the gifts that I get to unwrap on Christmas day and then my kids get to unwrap.

0:11:30 - (Helena Romanous): Yeah. It still touches my heart every time when I send the text out every year and people get allocated rich gifts and the mums message back say, oh, what do I get? A 22 year old mum. And I always tell them whenever they ask, this is the only gift she's getting at Christmas. It doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't need to be over the top, it needs to be practical. It just needs to be something that's gon make her feel special on the day. It could be, you know, a box of chocolates or some kind of female kind of perfume or whatever. It doesn't even matter. It's the fact that she has something for herself to unwrap and open.

0:12:03 - (Helena Romanous): It makes you or makes you be more appreciative of those Christmas gifts that we unwrap on the day, you know? Yeah.

0:12:10 - (Monsignor Shora): What was coming to me was like two things that, well, Christmas is about the great gift from God in his son Jesus. And then for us, Santa Claus, I was explaining to some children the other, you know, that comes from St. Nicholas, who was a bishop and who was giving to the poor. So when you were saying that, you know, that's, that's what was coming to my mind. Yeah. That we're thinking of those in need.

0:12:35 - (Monsignor Shora): It's a time to really think about those in need as well as to express our love to our family and to give them something that they need.

0:12:45 - (Debbie Draybi): And thinking about that, the thing that stood out for you is knowing that that's all they're going to get in comparison to your life and the lives of really our community where there's incredible generosity and lots of gifts and lots.

0:13:03 - (Helena Romanous): Of food and it's not like that for everyone. Even the meal we share on Christmas Day is always beautiful. Right. But that's not the case for everyone. I remember this year when we went up, I done a bit of research and found some places. You know, there's always beautiful charities and churches that put a meal on Christmas Day for homeless or for those who are vulnerable. And I was sharing that with the caseworkers.

0:13:25 - (Helena Romanous): They were talking about their plans and where they're gonna send the girls and what they'll do and what kind of meal they'll Have. And I was just sharing what I had found as well. And I was, yeah, just being struck by it. And I was trying to remind myself, like, I hope that on Christmas Day I remember these women that I, you know, it's something we do in the lead up to Christmas and we, and we get it there. But I hope that when I wake up on Christmas Day, they come to my mind as well, you know, that they're in my prayer that I remember when I'm eating my meal, that. But there's a young woman somewhere out there who's, who's in need.

0:13:55 - (Debbie Draybi): And how does that help you? What does that do for you when you remember them?

0:13:59 - (Helena Romanous): I just think gratitude is big and I think it's necessary. And I think in the world we're living today with this over consumption. Right? And I'm guilty of it too. It's important to just stop and pause and be grateful. And especially at Christmas time, you know, at Christmas more than ever, where everyone is pausing and everyone's reflecting on, you know, an event that changed the world. There's a lot to be grateful for.

0:14:27 - (Helena Romanous): It shouldn't be even. Just be, oh, I'm grateful. Look at me, I'm privileged. I'm lucky to be born in this socioeconomic status and I'm comfortable, but it's like, okay, well then what am I going to do about it? What do I get to do without privilege? You know, because it is, it is a privilege to be a middle class person living in the community we're living at the moment. You don't have to have a lot of wealth or a lot of status, but even middle class or lower class, having a roof over your head is a privilege. You know, you don't have to look far to find someone who's in need.

0:14:54 - (Helena Romanous): Like, if you wanted to give to someone this Christmas season and you wanted to, you know, be charitable, you could turn your shoulder and find someone in your church community, in your workplace, in your school, in your own home. It could be as simple as an invitation, including someone, you know, bringing someone in. We've got to do something with our gratitude.

0:15:13 - (Debbie Draybi): You know, I think that's a beautiful message. Thinking about being grateful, you know, we talk about that, how important it is, and we've had lots of conversations in this podcast around gratitude. But being able to think that's actually not enough. There has to be some action and do something that's meaningful to really give meaning to that gratitude and to know that it can be shared. What we have, what we're grateful for. Can be shared.

0:15:38 - (Debbie Draybi): And you know that generosity that oozes from you and it's just such a beautiful example. So thank you for saying that.

0:15:45 - (Helena Romanous): And I think it has an impact. That's something I've also noticed, is that it's contagious. You know, as soon as you send a message out or as soon as you invite someone or you offer someone an opportunity to get involved. I was always surprised at how quick people were to say yes. Every single year, I was surprised on, like, the last hour of the last day where I'm about to deliver, there'd be a surprise random donation that came in. Adenoba, here's another gift for a mum. Here's another voucher, here's another box of groceries. I'm like, where did you come from? Who even told you about this? Like, and people were always kind of rocking up.

0:16:18 - (Helena Romanous): So many times people have said to me, when I've said thank you so much and I've collected the donation, they're like, thank you for giving me the opportunity. Because if you hadn't sent me that message, then I wouldn't have been able to give something to someone. They were just waiting for an opportunity or for an invitation. So it's worth it for people to do that.

0:16:36 - (Debbie Draybi): And what do you think the impact is? Because it sounds like people are craving for it and they're waiting for that opportunity. I'm wondering what you've noticed the impact has been for them in doing that.

0:16:46 - (Helena Romanous): Every year I need two or three volunteers to come with me. So every year I've had a different friend or a different person come. And I've had some years where people are fighting over, like, oh, can't I be the car that drives up this time? And I've had friends who've brought their kids with them and they've come and done the drop off and gone to come in and see where the gifts are going. When we started this, it was a group of friends who were, you know, saying, instead of buying for our kids, let's buy for someone else's kids, someone who really needs it.

0:17:13 - (Helena Romanous): And I always told my friends, like, it's important that our kids know that we're doing this too, that this isn't about them not getting something, but they need to be involved in this. Yeah, it's like there when we started, they were really young, you know, they were toddlers, but they're all. They're all kind of growing up now and they've seen it year on year on year. The kids know that this is what we do as a group.

0:17:33 - (Helena Romanous): And my kids especially, because they see the room fill up over a few weeks and they see us wrapping and labeling and they get involved. And I remember one year, my eldest is now 13, but I remember a few years ago, she was sitting with me and she was old enough to understand Excel even a bit better at Excel than me. And I had the spreadsheet out and I was marking it all off and trying to make sure I had, you know, this mum who's allocated, has that been delivered? And I was tracking it all and she was helping me with the marking and labeling.

0:18:01 - (Helena Romanous): And she had just gotten to the point where she realized the ages of these women. So she was reading it out, mum number three, age seven, child one. And she was reading out all the ages, the numbers. And it struck her and she looked at me and she was like, mum, how does a 17 year old girl have a 1 year old child? Where's her husband? And it put me in a difficult, uncomfortable situation where I could have just brushed it off and tried to fluff over it and move on and make up something, but I didn't.

0:18:36 - (Helena Romanous): It allowed for an opportunity for us to have a vulnerable, authentic, real conversation. Age appropriate, of course. And she's continued to be a part of that now over the years. They all have, but they all recognize. But we had a great conversation around as they've gotten older. Now we talk about, you know, young women getting pregnant, we talk about the vulnerability and the fear of homelessness and what happens when people fall pregnant out of marriage and how some women are abandoned and their families don't take them in.

0:19:05 - (Helena Romanous): It even brought up this year, brought up a really hard conversation around abortion. You know, without this opportunity, I wouldn't have had even that environment to have that conversation. And I'm actually grateful for it. So, I mean, I think it's been great. I think it's been good for my kids for their maturity, for their growth, for them to see charity should happen at the home, that it's not just giving our money on church on Sundays we do that. And it's not just, you know, donating to the cancer council and filling out. Like those are all good ways to be charitable, but it also has to be practical.

0:19:37 - (Helena Romanous): And I think I've noticed in my kids as we grow up now, I notice them when we're on the streets, the way they respond to the homeless. My kids don't like to walk past the homeless anymore without, you know, like they want to acknowledge them, you know, like, mum, do you have any coins, like. And they want to. They want to stop, they want to pause. And it's. Yeah, I'm glad I'm raising them with that level of awareness.

0:19:56 - (Helena Romanous): So I hope it bears fruit somewhere down the line and it kind of helps in their heart that they kind of can then be a bit more compassionate to others.

0:20:04 - (Debbie Draybi): It sounds like they already are and it sounds like it's already bearing fruit in terms of, you know, you see that it's completely changed the narrative in your family. It's gone from an idea of giving to the less fortunate to a reality and understanding who they're giving to beyond just a spreadsheet and a number. It's people they're touching real life. People who've had a lot of hardship and maybe a lifestyle that your kids have not been exposed to before, but it's given them a sense of the world and reality and that people do live differently.

0:20:39 - (Helena Romanous): Yeah.

0:20:40 - (Debbie Draybi): And may not necessarily have the experiences that they have.

0:20:43 - (Helena Romanous): Yeah. You know, there's a part of you as a mum that wants to protect them from that because, you know, you think, oh, I'd love to wrap them up in bubble tape and shelter them from all the harsh realities of old. And there is, you know, age appropriate ways you have conversations and you expose your kids to things. But I think more and more in our society and even in our community, families are messy and society in general, and our kids are being exposed to that messiness younger and younger. And I think it's my responsibility as a parent to be able to navigate those conversations. Like, obviously, I don't do it perfect.

0:21:16 - (Helena Romanous): I'm a human and I'm flawed and I'm just trying my best. But I think we should create those spaces in our homes to have those conversations with our kids. You know, let them hear it from us first. They're going to hear it anyway. They'll hear it on the playground and from others. I want to be part of the conversation too. You know, I've got something I want to teach you about this.

0:21:33 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, it's. We've been talking about this quite a bit over the year around what our kids are exposed to, particularly with social media. We don't have a lot of control of the things that they see and what they have access to. But it sounds like, you know, you've had this great opportunity. We talk about impact, to invite vulnerable conversations and to expose your kids to the world, but in a safe and contained way and where you have control of how much you tell them and what narrative you share with Them rather than them hearing it outside of that.

0:22:06 - (Debbie Draybi): Monsignor, as you're listening, you know, does it remind you of anything in terms of some of the families you've worked with and the experiences they've had around having difficult conversations or being exposed to things that perhaps are a bit threatening or unfamiliar to them?

0:22:22 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, yeah. We were talking about an issue that you touched on, you know, at Mass with, about abortion and the values of life and that. And one of the mums asked me afterwards, you know, that her daughter in the car asked her about it, you know, and she said, I didn't know what to say. And I said, how old's your daughter? She said, she's 12, you know, and I said, look, she'll be starting to hear about some of these things now. Yeah, yeah. To say what, you know, to talk about it and the values around life, the beginning of life and that. Yeah, yeah. That we are trying to.

0:22:55 - (Monsignor Shora): Education and understanding is one of the best ways in preparing our children, you know, and letting them ask questions and to answer their questions, not to, you know, as you said, age appropriate. And I said to her, where she wouldn't be judged. But, you know, there's some mums who think they can't choose to have their children. It's a big struggle and we've got to try and help them. We've got to try and see how do we help them, and we pray for them. So it was sort of giving her that sort of context to be able to talk to her daughter about it.

0:23:23 - (Monsignor Shora): And they'll be hearing it on the news a lot at the moment with different things, and it's not to panic. And, you know, sometimes you don't have to jump in or, you know, I've heard where parents, you know, just say, take a bread, say, all right, that's a good question, you know. Yeah. And to ask them back a question first to help, you know, why are you asking that? What made you ask that? Have you heard anything?

0:23:44 - (Monsignor Shora): So you sort of get to where they're at and if it is, if you sense from their answer that there's something, yeah, they've got a bit of knowledge, they've heard a bit about this, then you can, you know, what's appropriate.

0:23:55 - (Helena Romanous): That's probably the most common thing I hear from women is, I don't know what to say. My daughter's asking me this, or I don't know how to answer the question. And I always tell them, like, don't be afraid, you don't have to answer it perfectly. You Know, my kids ask me confronting questions all the time. They have the best questions. Heaps of times I don't have the answer, I don't have it off the top of my head. I have to stop and pause and think or go away and find out and come back and keep the conversation going.

0:24:23 - (Helena Romanous): But we can't live in fear as parents of these conversations, right? And we can't push it away and say, oh, the school will talk about it or this person will talk about it or give it to someone else. Like, yes, others will form them. You know, your priests will form them, your school teachers and your community leaders will. Will form them. But also it's our responsibility as parents first and foremost to be the first formers. You know, women need to get the formation first. So I think what I try to advise them is make sure you have an environment at home where it's an open space to ask any question.

0:24:55 - (Helena Romanous): Just ask it. Even if it's a silly question, a dumb question, an awkward question, a rude question. Oh, Mum, I don't know if I should be asking. You can ask anything, you can ask me anything. You won't ever get in trouble and we'll have conversations. I think sometimes in our community there's a little bit of a. Oh, no, shh. We don't talk about that. That's rude. You know, we can't do that. We have to learn from the generations before us and the mistakes. We need to learn that. We gotta have these conversations. And yeah, I would just say to mums and dads, like, be not afraid. You know, you were made for this. You don't have to answer it perfectly, but you have to at least try. You have to engage in the conversation.

0:25:31 - (Monsignor Shora): And that you could say to them and to parents who there sometimes do get feel a bit caught off guard, say, now that is a really good question. And be honest. Say, look, I don't. I don't know all, but let's research it together. Let's see who we can find out. You know, next time we're with Father Shaura, we'll ask him. People come up after mass, say, oh, Little wants to ask you a question.

0:25:54 - (Helena Romanous): Sorry, that's me, that's me. My kids always do that.

0:25:56 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah. Which is not a bad thing. And that's good. Yeah. You ring and you can say, oh, look, my child asked about this. There's some good sites and that you can. Resources. Yeah. And you said, let's research it together. So I think the worst message we can give is, as you said, don't Talk to me about that subject. No, no, it's a no, no subject. Which means they're automatically going to go somewhere else.

0:26:17 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, I think we had that conversation. We've had it many times, actually. And I think it's been a huge motivator for us, you know, to have these microphones to enable and invite difficult conversations on taboo topics, topics that we've had as a traditional community in our culture. There's been a lot of stigma attached to, you know, certain topics, and they have been off limits. And as you said, we were raised in that way where this was ab and you don' Talk about it.

0:26:46 - (Debbie Draybi): You know, there's shame and guilt around certain ideas and topics. But what you've demonstrated with this, with your beautiful example, and thank you for inviting us into your family, into your home, into your living room, and to the conversations that you're having, where you're normalizing it is tricky. It's difficult. Kids are unpredictable. They're curious. It's a normal part of their development.

0:27:09 - (Debbie Draybi): And their curiosity is healthy. Yes, the conversations and the topics, they're healthy things to think about and being able to allow them. Because when we deny them, you see what denial does. And we've had lots of conversations around addictions and around all the other issues that evolve from, you know, denying our thinking and our curiosity, which can be really problematic. And one thing I want to highlight is I know you talk about be not afraid, but a message that we're trying to frame in this conversation is it's okay to be afraid. Cause it is scary.

0:27:41 - (Debbie Draybi): You know, if it's a topic that you've been told, it's risky, it's shameful. Am I condoning it by allowing it? It's scary. You know, you're uttering these words for the first time. You haven't had it modelled to you. You didn't have this conversation with your mum. It's the first time you're having it with your kids. So it's actually quite normal to feel scared and to even disclose that to your kids in a. You know, obviously you don't want to, you know, burden them with your.

0:28:08 - (Debbie Draybi): Your fears. But to. For them to recognize, you know, actually, I haven't. I haven't thought about it that way or I haven't really talked about it before. It's, you know, it's a little bit unfamiliar. And you could even use the word scared because it also lets them know that you're human, too, and you're working it out in the same way that they are. And we don't always have the answers.

0:28:28 - (Helena Romanous): That's a really good point. And I would say maybe then find a trusted adult. Yeah, it doesn't have to be a big group. You know, you find one trusted wise friend that you can bounce this stuff off with and say, hey, my kids said this. Has your kid said this? What, how, how have you approached it? What should bounce off each other and brainstorm it away? You know, like I've grown so much from the friendships around me, from just the example of the people around me. And, you know, we've had those conversations.

0:28:58 - (Monsignor Shora): Yeah, that's good what Deb said, because you do feel the fear, but it's. Don't let the fear stop you from when. That sort of thing.

0:29:05 - (Helena Romanous): Okay, let's phrase. Be not afraid, but don't let it.

0:29:08 - (Debbie Draybi): Stop you or feel. Feel the fear. I always tell my kids, feel the fear. Feel the fear, but do it anyway, you know, I mean, obviously, within reason.

0:29:17 - (Helena Romanous): Yeah, Boundaries, boundaries.

0:29:20 - (Debbie Draybi): But being able to recognize that actually it's a normal human emotion to feel fear. Our fears protect us. There are signposts that there is a danger and there's a risk and it is scary and it is risky to talk about topics that have been forbidden or taboo or shameful.

0:29:37 - (Monsignor Shora): It's more the fright. Don't be there is that healthy fear that, you know, as you said, it's. And I think you're picking up a bit to be the biblical one. It's be not frightened, you know, like that. That makes you freeze, you know. Yeah. Don't let that ice stop you.

0:29:52 - (Debbie Draybi): But I think, you know what I've heard from you, a really, you know, powerful tool is to build connections with like minded people, you know, where you're supporting each other and you're sharing in your fears and, you know, it's incredible how it can really normalize things and engage in it. Really empower you to have these conversations in a better way.

0:30:13 - (Helena Romanous): Yeah. The power of community. Hey. Yeah. I don't know what I. I don't know how I would have survived motherhood without the community around me. I really. Yeah. Have a space in my heart for the women and the families who are doing it alone and are doing it in isolation. You know, I can't even comprehend it because in our community you don't get to do anything alone. You know, like we're all living on top of each other and people are at my back door and walking in without even knocking, you know, like.

0:30:39 - (Helena Romanous): Which is beautiful. I never had to struggle through motherhood on my Own. I always had community. I always had someone to call or message or ask a question. So, yeah, what a gift that is. What a gift. Don't take that for granted either. You know, sometimes we roll our eyes and we huff and puff and, oh, why don't you mind your own business? But what a gift.

0:31:01 - (Debbie Draybi): I think one of our first conversations in this podcast was about community and developing communities. Helena, what you've given us an example of. You've created a community. Even though you don't have a direct relationship with these women, you've invited them into your community and built a connection with them in such a beautiful way by not just giving them gifts, but having some insight into their lives and who they are and the struggles that they've had and sharing those stories. Even this conversation today, it's just a beautiful example. And you're respecting their privacy. We haven't talked about any names.

0:31:35 - (Debbie Draybi): It's more around bringing people into conversations and sharing their stories invites them into your community in a beautiful, humble way. But as we're wrapping up, I'm wondering from you, just in this reflection, whether there's anything, a key message for people who think about and are grateful for what they have, but recognise that there's something more they want to do with that gratitude. What's something that you would recommend or suggest to them, you know, particularly when they've not really done anything with it before?

0:32:08 - (Debbie Draybi): This is a new experience.

0:32:09 - (Helena Romanous): I think my suggestion would be to pause and reflect, to go gently through this season. We all have a tendency in December to put our foot on the pedal and to go at top speed. All the way through to Boxing Day, we're just rush, rush, rushing through. It's so important to just pause and to slow down and to go gently through the season. You can't practice gratitude at top speed. You just can't. You can't be rushing through it.

0:32:37 - (Helena Romanous): And I would also say, while you're pausing, look around and find someone who needs help. Anyone, you know, the closest person next to you. Someone might pop up tomorrow that is in need of help and there might be a real small, practical way that you can help find a way to do it.

0:32:56 - (Debbie Draybi): Yeah, thank you for those beautiful examples. You know, as we talk about the craziness and the mad rush in this silly season, being able to stop and pause, you know, it's just such a powerful opportunity to take in what we're experiencing, but also to recognize not just our needs, but those people around us. So thank you for those top tips and for those of you who need a bit of extra help in that pause. We do have an episode on mindfulness, so just putting it out there too. It's something that, you know, if, if you are struggling because sometimes it is hard to pause and reflect if it's not a practice that you've done before and you've actually been quite intentional on, you know, speeding up all the time. That's how you cope with the madness.

0:33:38 - (Debbie Draybi): Being able to think about some strategies to take that pause and be mindful. We have a whole episode on that. Monsignor, as we're wrapping up, I'm wondering, I know it's a very, very busy time for you as well. Whether you had any tips or any suggestions or any take homes that you want to share with our listener.

0:33:58 - (Monsignor Shora): Look, I do. I think Alina's named it. The foot goes down on the pedal and then that means all the issues we talked about during the year, all the healthy things sort of can go out the window. So we talked about fitness and health. Well, the food, you know. Yeah. The exercise stops and. Yeah. So it's a time, I think the time for giving of ourselves. And I liked the idea to take time to listen to each other's stories.

0:34:25 - (Monsignor Shora): That pause is a time to listen and then to give of ourselves. And that time for gratitude. I think that's, you know, if we put that into this time now, that makes that make a big difference for family life and make it a beautiful Christmas.

0:34:41 - (Debbie Draybi): Well, thank you both and Helena, thank you. I just want to extend our gratitude to you, you know, for your incredible generosity in sharing, you know, your vulnerable stories and inviting us into your home and to your family. I know that this is a conversation, you know, you've been. Been quite discreet in the incredible work that you do, but just being able to share it in such a meaningful way, it's very humbling and I really appreciate that.

0:35:03 - (Helena Romanous): Thank you so much and thanks for all the great work you're doing at hsh. It's really inspirational.

0:35:15 - (Debbie Draybi): I hope this episode has helped you find sanctuary in this exciting journey of life. All of the reading resources we've mentioned in this episode are found in the podcast notes. If you need some assistance with any of the topics discussed in today's episode, then please Visit our website, HSHL.org au if you have any thoughts, comments or ideas, please leave us a comment on Spotify. Alternatively, send us an email@adminshl.org a you, you and your mental health matters to us. And we hope you get one step closer in finding sanctuary.

0:35:54 - (Debbie Draybi): Bye for now.