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Debbie
Welcome to Finding Sanctuary, our shared conversations into how we think and feel, and how we find peace and comfort in daily life. We get together with experts to chat about all things mental health, getting insights and understanding on the struggles of life. My name is David Raby and I'm a psychologist and a proud Maronite woman and a mother of three children, and I'm passionate about bringing people together to share their stories, to support each other through life and all its beauty and all its pain.
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Debbie
I look forward to hearing from you in this podcast series, as we engage in conversations around our shared experiences as a community. We love to hear what you think of the podcast, so please subscribe and share, like and comment wherever you get your podcasts.
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Debbie
And just like that, we're back is so exciting to have you both back. we've had a long break and I'm really excited. I'm jumping. You might say it. I know you can't say my listeners. I'm Debbie Draven. I've got with me my co-host, Monsignor Shaw, and also Edie Raiche. And we're very excited to be back. We've had a five month break.
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Debbie
from our very first season in Finding Sanctuary, and we're really excited to be back. I hope you've missed us. We've got a lot coming up in the new year. I know that we're already in April, so it feels a bit strange saying New Year, but we deliberately took a pause and we wanted to have a conversation today about that.
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Debbie
We started this season as a pilot, a bit of an experiment, trying to get a sense of what it's going to look like. You know, we came to you unscripted, unplanned and just our full show was authentic selves. And so we've come back now. We've had an opportunity to have a pause. And I wondered, Monsignor and Eddie, if we can start off with our very first one around what that experience was like, having having a bit of time away from something new that we started, whether it's I know that we all had different experiences, some of us had holidays, others, you know, especially yourself during the festivities of Christmas and Easter.
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Debbie
Yes. Haven't really had a break, but just just exploring a bit about, you know, what that time away from from the podcast has been like, whether it's a holiday time or just a time to reflect on the experience or things you may have heard during that busy period of, you know, I know is a peak time for the church.
00:02:28:19 - 00:02:41:10
Debbie
someone saying, yeah, I was wondering, we saw with you, if you just have a bit of a conversation around what some of your reflections have been in the in the period that we've had away and some of the key things that you wanted to share to kick off the season.
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Monsignor Shora
Thank you. David. It's good to be back and with with Eddie and yourself. I did, over the time here, people say I listen to the podcast and I enjoyed it. And to hear positive feedback and a little bit wider than I, people that I didn't expect would listen to it. That was good in that regard. For myself personally, as you said, it's been a very busy time.
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Monsignor Shora
So the break we went into, the Christmas time. But hearing people in the rush, preparing for holidays. Yeah, setting to have a break in, never get ready for Christmas. And then, something I try to always do when I'm having a break is. Yeah, just to have rest and then, wanting to catch up with friends and family, like, just, you know, reconnect a little bit more with those home base relationships for me, family relationships.
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Monsignor Shora
And then to allow a bit of time to say, you know what? What is anything I need to fix up for the for the future, anything I need to change or to make it better in getting ready to go back in thinking about the podcast, it's been it's in my new experience for me doing a podcast in this way.
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Monsignor Shora
I've been involved in, a couple of different conversations with podcasts, but, yeah, this one's been new and I've been quite happy with it. and, and especially to hear the feedback from a bit, it has been we went straight from Christmas and straight into lent, almost straight after that side with our very early Easter this year, so wasn't too much of a holiday for myself for a break.
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Monsignor Shora
But yeah, it was it was good hearing different, little bits of, feedback from people that had listened to the podcast.
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Debbie
Yeah, I'm really excited to hear that. once again, particularly during a busy period, what I'm hearing is opportunity for connecting and reconnecting with people, but also in relation to the podcasts, I'm hearing a bit of surprise there that people that you didn't expect or anticipate. Yeah. Listening. I think that's a huge win for us that we often we have a target audience sometimes in mind.
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Debbie
But yeah. Yeah. Nice to feel surprised about who's listening. Have you heard of it? Did you. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Same. I have been surprised by some of the feedback, you know, people I didn't think would listen that a curious some comments, people that I know, but also people that I'm meeting knew. I think I went to church recently and I got introduced as the podcast lady, so that was pretty exciting.
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Debbie
Oh yeah. And yeah, just seeing people recognize my voice because, you know, I've got a very distinct voice. I can get away with anything. But yeah, just seeing, their expressions, I think was quite energizing to know that there's a connection there with people we've never met or we've never seen. But in terms of content, I think people are excited about the different topics.
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Debbie
There's been such a diversity of topics, so asking for more and asking when it's coming back on. So I think that that's also been really nice to this. There's a nice energy that's and a momentum that's building up. And I know it's reflecting a bit in our data, which is exciting as well, to know that we're reaching bigger numbers and also people that are curious about what's coming.
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Debbie
Yeah. What about you? Eddie is sitting there quietly listening, as you always do.
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Eddie
This is really entertaining. So much is network involved in this. All I have to do is listen.
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Debbie
And yeah, what we you know, what are some of your reflections? We've we haven't seen you for a while. We missed. Yeah, yeah. What's been going on for you. what have been some of your reflections in that time away?
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Eddie
Oh, I was thinking a lot about some of the feedback that we're getting about this. And I run a men's group at Saint Joseph's, and I was approached by a couple of people who actually thanked us for what we're doing, because it seems to resonate a lot with people, and they might just sit there and listen, but they take it in and it does make a difference knowing that it makes a difference because it's it feels weird, doesn't it?
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Eddie
We sit here, we're in this room and we just talking to microphones. We have no idea what happens afterwards, but to hear that it actually makes a difference and we're doing some good in the community makes it all worthwhile. And just getting that positive feedback makes you feel that we are doing something. We are part of God's work, part of, the work we're trying to do to help people and makes us feel there's a lot of reassurance that in validation that we are doing the right thing.
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Eddie
And so some of that feedback, we don't get a lot of it. But when I do get the feedback, it makes it worthwhile. And from talking to people who I don't know and I give me this feedback, then, think about people who just don't give feedback, but do listen. And I think, like you said, the numbers show that this is being seen and heard by a lot of people.
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Eddie
So I'm thinking we must be doing something right.
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Debbie
Yeah, yeah. As you're talking, I remember the feedback that I got actually, by a couple of people about how soothing your voices and, and it's quite therapeutic. And they asked me about you, though, curious about what you like. And so I think it's it's a beautiful thing that, as you said, we are talking to a microphone that we all say that reaches far and people are curious and, and wanting to connect with us and build that relationship with us.
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Debbie
And I think it brings me to one of the ideas that we've been sharing and that you've had Eddie in particular, about moving away from speaking to the microphone and coming together with the community and running some workshops that really, complement the topics that we talk about in the podcasts. And I'm really excited about that. And I think it's that opportunity to continue to build that connection away from the microphone and with with the people that listening to us.
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Debbie
And, and then they get to see you in person.
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Eddie
I but I disappointed you.
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Monsignor Shora
But a man. Hey.
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Debbie
you never disappoint me. I have to tell you, though, for those that are listening and I'm not sure how how long this is going to go on, but Eddie is in a bit is in a cast.
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Eddie
You don't get away from this.
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Debbie
I know, so that was a bit of a shock. So if you do see him, please don't ask him though.
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Monsignor Shora
Please. I've had enough.
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Debbie
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we thought we better putting a disclaimer now. Because whilst he's gentle, he can be grumpy if you ask the wrong question.
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Eddie
I've never been grumpy.
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Debbie
I know at all.
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Eddie
Yeah.
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Debbie
And I'm thinking about that, Eddie, as as we go along. I know your your period away would have been obviously very different to years, but thinking about because, you know, Monsignor was in the thick of it with peak, periods, and two really big holidays very close together. I'm wondering about you. What that experience was like for you.
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Debbie
You had a chance to have a bit of a holiday or, or even some of your work with some of your patients around that holiday period.
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Eddie
I don't take much of a break. I did a lot of work with the church, with Saint Joseph's. we did a play, for Good Friday, and I do the technical stuff in the background. try and stay as far removed from the limelight and leave that to the actors. But it's pretty hard when things aren't working.
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Eddie
You got to run up and down. And this one, person who's running around trying to get things to work is pretty obvious. But I loved all the stuff that I do for the church. I love the things that we try and help parishioners with. And, I still had my practice running. I did a week off from the practice.
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Eddie
It's interesting because you find that periods of Christmas and Easter seems to affect people more because they feel the loss, grief.
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Debbie
Yeah.
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Eddie
People that they've lost even in relationships, people that they've broken up with, they feel that loss greater during Christmas and Easter and people who they've lost, as in in death and the grief that's associated with that during these periods, because everything brings back those memories. So I feel very empathic towards those people. And so I want to be able to be there so they can just sit there and just talk about exactly what they're feeling.
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Eddie
So unfortunately, that happens during these breaks. And rather than leaving alone, I like to be available. So I try and help them with that.
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Debbie
Yeah. Yeah. I mean I know we talked about that a little bit in towards the end of the year in preparation for Christmas and you know, thinking about, yes, it's a period of celebration, but it's also for those that are grieving. It's a it's a period where that grief can often be more heightened, where we feel the absence of our loved ones and and that connection.
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Debbie
Yeah. That's something that you're. Yeah. United seeing and you've experienced as well with, with some of the parishioners. Yeah.
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Monsignor Shora
Yeah. Some of the calls go a little bit more and then straight after two, you know. Yes. It is that time with people more intensely feel those losses. And that day sometimes people feel the loneliness more. You know we. Yeah we touched on that. Yeah.
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Eddie
On the flip side, these times usually bring in heightened anxiety for people as well because the demand on trying to prepare things, the mums and the wives who are trying to cope with their family and the in-laws, and the demand that's placed on them to make sure that they're doing the right thing. And so you get this heightened sense of anxiety that occurs during this time as well.
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Eddie
So my thoughts go out to those people because I realize it's not always even though there's no loss or anything like that, the anxiety and the what they go through sometimes is pretty severe. And you get a lot of fighting. Yeah. particularly in relationships when these times come because of expectation. So I'm very mindful about that. And so I do see a lot of clients after this and then try and deal with the fallout from it every festive period.
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Debbie
Yeah. Often you see, the ramification of was, you know, the perception is it's a good time and families are coming together. But, what you notice is these expectations, more heightened and, there's a lot of pressure to perform and to perform not just a role, but to perform sort of at so many levels in terms of not just how the celebration happens, but when it happens and with who and how you host it and putting on your best is, is a lot of pressure.
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Debbie
we've talked about that, quite a bit in the past, in our previous episodes around the expectations that we have. That's right. with families and, and even roles in the community and how that can really be overwhelming and create a lot anxiety,
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Eddie
Particularly masks, if you remember previous to talking about masks. And when you're in front of all your family, you want to you don't want to show your shortcomings. You want to show that everything's going well. So you put on that mask that everything's okay, and yeah, there's another dilemma.
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Monsignor Shora
That is, and then people who get upset because when it's not going good in their partners putting out the mask and then saying, how can you be showing everything's okay, that's not okay. Yeah, there's some of that. Yeah.
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Eddie
I can get quite complicated.
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Debbie
Yeah. You see that those tensions, and those polarities really where one person maybe present this picture perfect family, dressed well, presented well, and then the partner can say through that because they know the reality when those masks come off, and it creates a lot of conflict, doesn't it? Because it's only when we show up as our authentic self that we're able to let go of some of those sort of tensions and just be real with each other.
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Debbie
It's chipping away at that, isn't it? Yeah.
00:14:29:19 - 00:14:34:05
Eddie
So the movies put the spotlight on us. Yeah. We put the spotlight on, you know, us.
00:14:34:06 - 00:14:39:05
Debbie
You now talk about performance anxiety. Thanks, Eddie. Thanks for.
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Eddie
The welcome.
00:14:39:24 - 00:14:43:24
Debbie
But turning on me, just to let you know.
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Eddie
Tell us about your break.
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Debbie
Yeah, I look, I, Oh, wow. It feels like so long ago now that I'm reflecting. I did have a break. It was a nice time. But yeah, I agree. I relate to and connect to what you're saying about heightened anxiety because coming together is a beautiful thing with family. But also, you know, there is that pressure. I went away for a little bit to the case, which we do every year with my family, and I stay with my mom and my kids and yeah, it was beautiful.
00:15:12:21 - 00:15:32:18
Debbie
But yeah, you get that cabin fever, as I call it, we spend a lot more time together. everyone's on holidays, everyone's on break, and there's a whole sort of rhythm and expectation that comes with that. And one keeping the kids entertained and always having to do something. because we are busy in our day to day, always work.
00:15:32:18 - 00:15:55:23
Debbie
And how do you engage in a holiday where it's less busy, but it's still entertaining for the kids? So I think I struggle with that sometimes. And my kids are of different generations in the one family's like doing finding things that we all enjoy is, a bit of a tug of war, which is why I love the beach, because it's kind of accommodating and something therapeutic.
00:15:55:23 - 00:16:28:06
Debbie
So we do spend a lot of time on the beach, which I loved. so yeah, I'm that it's. Yeah, it's always nice to have a separation. and, you know, I've been thinking about, I think one of the first conversations I had on my first day back at work with halfway through the day, my boss called me about something, and I said, I think I'm in the third stage of grief now because you do go through a grief cycle when you come back because, you know, you anticipate the excitement of going away and having time off, and then you come back to a reality again.
00:16:28:06 - 00:16:46:23
Debbie
And yeah, so I, I reflected on that. We had a bit of a joke about the stages of grief when you returned from what you've returned from holidays. there's a bit of denial and, is kind of going to this phase where you're, negotiating whether you actually do need to work and whether you can, you know, reduce your hours or.
00:16:46:23 - 00:16:54:10
Debbie
Yeah, you just go through this bargaining thing. but yeah, it's always nice to have some separation from routine.
00:16:54:12 - 00:17:10:13
Eddie
I just wondered that when you, when I was listening to everything that you were saying, you were talking about how you were trying to make sure the kids had a great time and made sure everyone was happy. And I got a bit worried, I must admit, because I was thinking about. Well, what about yourself? Yeah. What about you?
00:17:10:13 - 00:17:22:07
Eddie
What about me? At what point do you feel relaxed enough where you feel nobody needs anything from you and you can just be you? Did you manage to get any of that time?
00:17:22:09 - 00:17:46:06
Debbie
I have teenagers, so no, it's not a reality because it's about them. Yeah. God forbid it's about you. yeah. Look, I try to, I love the beach. I find the beach very therapeutic. So I just even being there in that space. But also, I love people. So that combination of beach and people is like. That's where I get my energy, and where I feel re-energised.
00:17:46:08 - 00:18:00:20
Debbie
yeah. There's a lot of. It's a busy time. I don't get a lot of my time, but I also get a lot of energy from being around others. So I was that. I love that just reconnecting with family, but it is a bit of a tug of war because when you have teenagers, anyone who's raised teens, me?
00:18:00:24 - 00:18:22:00
Debbie
Yeah, they need me in a different way. And they. Yeah, kind of that egocentric mind, really does take a bit of time to convince them about that. You also have needs. It's a challenge. you know, honestly, I'm not there yet, but, I keep reminding myself that it's temporary.
00:18:22:02 - 00:18:28:23
Eddie
I'm not trying to make this therapeutic, but I'm just curious at what point could you really call it a holiday?
00:18:29:00 - 00:18:51:01
Debbie
I think, for me, it's about, holiday is a break from the routine and having complete separation from that work life where you're on a schedule and your meetings and you've got a very busy job full time. So I think just having complete separation and the my reflection when I went back was I didn't think about work at all.
00:18:51:03 - 00:19:13:11
Debbie
So I guess that to me was an indicator that I had a break and it was a holiday because it wasn't ruminating about any stuff with work. I actually forgot my job a little bit, and I has to remind myself what I do and what I get paid to do. So, yeah, that's always nice. Just having a complete separation from the commitment and the pressures and the responsibilities of work.
00:19:13:14 - 00:19:37:17
Eddie
Right. Because I go on to my next point here, where I start looking at holiday as more of a mindset than it doesn't matter where you are, if your mindset is on a holiday, you could be in your backyard and you could have that mindset that nobody's asking for anything. And you can just sit there with your eyes closed, be just as good and just as cathartic having a holiday than anything else.
00:19:37:17 - 00:20:00:10
Eddie
So I think if we can look at holiday as a mindset rather than just a positional thing, or because you're at the beach, the beach gives you your therapeutic release, you know, in a way of being, present and grounded at that point, very big on holiday itself, being a mindset. And when we feel free, that sense of freedom.
00:20:00:12 - 00:20:02:04
Eddie
I think that's when my holiday.
00:20:02:06 - 00:20:19:06
Monsignor Shora
Because there's a lot of people that go to beautiful places, but their mindset is not on hold. Yeah, exactly. It's still work. They still a melody this morning though. Oh you know. Yeah. Yeah. So it is. You're right. You've got to have a mindset too. Yeah. And then and then the beautiful settings do help you to enter into it.
00:20:19:06 - 00:20:31:06
Monsignor Shora
You know if you know this my this place a beach water helps you to switch off. That's that's, it's good and calming and, you know. Yeah. I like rainy water to my breaks.
00:20:31:08 - 00:20:32:10
Debbie
Yeah. There's there's something.
00:20:32:12 - 00:20:32:18
Monsignor Shora
Very.
00:20:32:18 - 00:20:54:11
Debbie
Therapeutic about Jesus. Calming. And. Yeah, it's that connection with nature. Yeah, yeah, even the sound of the way. Yeah, yeah. But you're right. I agree around that. I mean, you could, as you said, you could be, in the most incredible destination and paying big bucks to be there. But your mindset is still in work. My stress mode.
00:20:54:11 - 00:20:55:00
Debbie
Oh.
00:20:55:02 - 00:21:16:13
Monsignor Shora
I used to like going for a drive, driving up to tweet tweets. I said that 11 hour drive was like I was letting the work go out the window, so I like it. Rather than flying, get somewhere within an hour and then you work. You still that that hour, that that 11 hour drive was just like me leaving it behind and then get,
00:21:16:15 - 00:21:19:13
Eddie
It's where it's more about the journey and the destination.
00:21:19:13 - 00:21:20:15
Monsignor Shora
Yeah, yeah. Yes.
00:21:20:20 - 00:21:36:07
Debbie
I said theme of letting go, leaving things behind. They're going to be there when you get back. So part of that mindset is, is detaching from the day to day. And those responsibilities that we become consumed with someone.
00:21:36:07 - 00:21:55:06
Eddie
The how many people have got a flat battery on their phone initially? There's that panic, I'm going to miss out. Or what if someone wants to call me? But then when you accept the fact that it's flat, there's nothing you can do there. Yeah, I wonder how many people start to feel that sense of freedom that no one's going right.
00:21:55:08 - 00:22:03:17
Eddie
You're not going to get that call. No one's going to ask anything. And it's almost like it's a release. Yeah, that's not bad. It's okay.
00:22:03:20 - 00:22:22:18
Monsignor Shora
Yeah. I remember going on a trip that was my sister and we went to America and I forgot to take my charger, and it was a time where you couldn't just get anyone else's charger to charge your phone. So my phone did. And so for three weeks I was not count. And I have to say, it was the best holiday I had up to that time.
00:22:22:20 - 00:22:24:22
Monsignor Shora
Yeah. So, yeah.
00:22:24:22 - 00:22:49:18
Debbie
Yeah, yeah. So again, detaching from our devices, which really I know we've talked about this in the past, you know, our beautiful Natalie. Who we going to talk to you later when we're talking about going from FOMO to Joe and just having that detachment from the things that really consume our attention and our energy and and being a it's a liberating, isn't it?
00:22:49:20 - 00:22:51:15
Debbie
And sometimes it's accidental. Yeah.
00:22:51:15 - 00:22:57:02
Monsignor Shora
And it's survived. Everyone survives runs. Yeah. She kept going. Nothing. Nothing fell apart. Yeah.
00:22:57:04 - 00:23:01:02
Eddie
But the anxiety starts just before you get either. So I.
00:23:01:04 - 00:23:02:10
Monsignor Shora
Think yes, I.
00:23:02:10 - 00:23:09:17
Eddie
Think when you get back into cellular range and you think it's waiting for me. Oh, what did I miss out on that?
00:23:09:19 - 00:23:37:19
Debbie
Oh, it's so nice to reconnect with you. And, you know, as we continue to evolve this, this wonderful connection that we have, just even repositioning and asking me questions a little bit, confronting, I must say. but, you know, I think it's a really powerful experience to be able to share in that, in that responsibility, but also reposition ourselves and, and think about things differently and, and to hear from each other in different ways and being curious about each other.
00:23:37:21 - 00:23:59:19
Eddie
I want to thank both of you because you got a wealth of knowledge and experience behind you, and there's just so much that we can actually share with everybody, and everyone can gain so much just from including that our friend back there. this is just so much experience and knowledge that I think it's really important that we should be able to share with people, because I think a lot of people get a lot out of it.
00:23:59:21 - 00:24:23:04
Debbie
Yeah, I think it's that collective experience that when we come together and just being able to, you know, the merging of all of our experiences and, and, you know, I know we all have a history together, but it's just so nice when we're able to share it in such a beautiful way. And, you know, even just demonstrating how the the holiday experience was way for each of us was unique.
00:24:23:06 - 00:24:31:18
Debbie
there's also an opportunity to reflect on those common threads. So thank you once again. Do you have anything else, any any parting wisdom.
00:24:31:20 - 00:24:48:14
Monsignor Shora
Locally is good. When you do have a break part of it to have that good rest and that good switch off, you know, and then sometimes it is good. I've been getting couples where that's I give them honeymoon homework when they've coming back, say to them, start to see how do you what do you want your life to look like when you get back?
00:24:48:16 - 00:25:09:11
Monsignor Shora
So to start to not just to run back into it or fall back into it to say, hang on, is it something I need to change or what do I want? What do I need to do? Said to make a bit of a time at the break. You know, any break to say, all right. Is there anything I need to change when I get back that can make my returning to work, my returning to the daily life and the routine?
00:25:09:11 - 00:25:27:04
Monsignor Shora
Is there anything I can look at? So it's good to make a bit of time because like, rest is supposed to be recreating you, you and yes, if you can, to say, what? Is this something I can leave off? Something I need to add in that makes, you know, going back to work and go back into life. You know, better.
00:25:27:04 - 00:25:42:08
Monsignor Shora
So that that would be what I am. Sometimes people maybe don't do that and it's just going back straight into the the rat race instead of saying, hang on, how could I make this, a journey, a life journey, not a race, you know that I'm that I'm living. You know, in.
00:25:42:10 - 00:25:53:22
Debbie
Some ways, what Eddie was saying before around how do you integrate that holiday mindset into your into your day to day life and and not wait till you have to, you know, scheduling another holiday.
00:25:53:22 - 00:25:57:13
Monsignor Shora
Having little, little mini holidays in many, many spaces.
00:25:57:15 - 00:25:58:14
Debbie
Right in your mind.
00:25:58:16 - 00:25:59:17
Monsignor Shora
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:59:19 - 00:26:09:15
Debbie
That's cheap and accessible. Well thank you both sides. So nice to come together again. And thank you for a whole New Year's conversations with you guys.
00:26:09:17 - 00:26:12:20
Eddie
Looking forward to it as well. Thanks. Thank you. Thank thanks Monsignor.
00:26:12:22 - 00:26:23:23
Monsignor Shora
Thank you Eddie. Thank you Dave.
00:26:24:00 - 00:26:48:24
Debbie
I hope this episode has helped you find sanctuary in this exciting journey of life. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are found in the podcast notes. If you need some assistance with any of the topics discussed in today's episode, then please visit our website HSA, hl mortgage, AEW. If you have any thoughts, comments or IDs, please leave us a comment on Spotify.
00:26:49:05 - 00:27:03:12
Debbie
Alternatively, send us an email at admin at HSA HL to all the AEW you and your mental health matters to us, and we hope you get one step closer in finding sanctuary. Bye for now.