[TRANSCRIPT]
0:00:04 - (Debbie): Welcome to finding Sanctuary. Our shared conversations into how we think and feel and how we find peace and comfort in daily life. We get together with experts to chat about all things mental health, getting insights and understanding on the struggles of life. My name is Debbie Draybi and I'm a psychologist and a proud maronite woman and a mother of three children. And I'm passionate about bringing people together to share their stories, to support each other through life and all its beauty and all its pain.
0:00:33 - (Debbie): I look forward to hearing from you in this podcast series as we engage in conversations around our shared experiences as a community. We love to hear what you think of the podcast, so please subscribe, share like and comment wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back, listeners. And here we are wrapping up another year. And as we talk about end of year, I don't think we can go without having a conversation as we do around the end of year ritual that often we do is thinking about our resolutions, things, commitments that we make to ourselves, whether it's around self improvement, whether it's around making changes to help us on the path that we want to go to in our journey. So we're going to have a conversation with you today around that, and we've actually got this wonderful opportunity to have a conversation with someone really special to our team, Derek Yeoh, who's our production manager now. Derek, he's usually behind, thinking about the sound, listening and guiding us.
0:01:45 - (Debbie): And today we really wanted him front and center behind the microphone, sharing his wisdom and experience, because let me tell you, this man is just incredible and he's just been an absolute blessing for us. The way he's brought us together, the way he's taught us, guided us with his incredible experience. It feels strange welcoming him because he's always with us behind the scenes and he's just been an incredible anchor for us in terms of helping us develop this podcast.
0:02:14 - (Debbie): So excited that he's going to join us and you get to hear his voice and to hear some of his wisdom that he shares with us every time we're together. So welcome, Derek. No pressure.
0:02:27 - (Derek): Thanks very much. Debbie, that introduction, if somebody could hear me shaking in my boots, put a mic there, you'd hear it. But thank you. Very, very honored to be able to sit here and to have a conversation with you guys. I'm blown away with taking cue from the words that we've learned, that humble curiosity that all of you guys approach. The subject matter blows me away. And I guess it's empowered me to step up just because that's what you guys do, even though you guys talk for a living.
0:02:59 - (Derek): You guys have put your best versions out there without those masks, as we've talked about in the Christmas episode. So thank you all of Derek, I'm.
0:03:09 - (Debbie): Humbled because you're such an integral part of our team. And I think it's just beautiful that it's now, as we're approaching the end of the year and the end of this season with the podcast, that you're able to join us and share your voice because we get to hear it. But I think it's important for our listeners as well because I think it completes that full package that we have as a team and you're such an integral part of that.
0:03:36 - (Derek): Wow.
0:03:37 - (Debbie): And we have Eddie sitting next to him as well, who may have to hold his hand.
0:03:41 - (Eddie): The thing that I'm enjoying is, unfortunately, listeners can't see this, but the emotion behind him is extraordinary. Everything that he's saying, every bit of emotion, the expression on his face and what he's trying to deliver is for us, a joy to watch, but for the listeners, should be a joy just to listen. But if you can hear the emotion that comes through it, I think it's a blessing for you.
0:04:06 - (Debbie): Yeah.
0:04:07 - (Eddie): Is that okay?
0:04:08 - (Derek): That's great. Don't know what to say after that. Hold my clammy hands. Hold my clammy hands.
0:04:13 - (Debbie): Eddie. Lots of hand holding here, listeners. We're really keen to have a conversation today, Derek and Eddie, and later we'll have Natalie join us as well. She's not going to get away with them. She is in the room. So one of the things that we really want to have a conversation about is our experiences with thinking about when we're reflecting at the end of a year and the start of a new one, the resolutions that we make for ourselves and just thinking about how we've experienced that in the past, what we've learned from it, and hopefully that can help guide us into the resolutions that we make in the new year. So, Derek, I was wondering if you can share some of your experiences and your insight into what you've learned from how you've navigated New Year's resolutions every.
0:05:02 - (Derek): Thanks, Debbie. Got to share a bit about my background because I don't sound Lebanese and I'm not. I'm malaysian, malaysian Chinese.
0:05:10 - (Debbie): He's a wannabe Lebanese. No, we've adopted him. It's a foster child.
0:05:17 - (Derek): And being brought up in a malaysian chinese family and we are Christians, it's very unique. I've never been to China, but being in Malaysia, there's a different set of. As we talk about family of origin, there's also country of origin. And coming from a family, which places a lot of importance on our studies. We were asked from a very young age to study really hard because like any good family, you want to be either a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, or any of those big names, maybe a psychologist, a counselor.
0:05:51 - (Derek): My mom said I was too emotional and I should stay away from taking up psychology. But that's another topic for another day. I studied and trained as an electrical engineer. I did that, but I went, you know what? This is no way to live. I just didn't like it. I finished, I went to the workforce, I did three years of that and I went, okay, what's next? Sound engineering. I took a gap year. I went to Oxford. I did 18 months of sound engineering and loved it.
0:06:17 - (Derek): But what I picked up over the years from Malaysia to Oxford and then to Adelaide and then to Sydney was noticing the different cultural differences. I noticed that as Malaysians, at least, the people that I hung out with or the people that I grew up with, we were quite okay in terms of living up to the Joneses, but there was still a bit of that we needed to try to live up to certain things. There were brand names that we needed to buy.
0:06:48 - (Derek): There were things that we needed to go to. So we always tried to live up to that expectation.
0:06:54 - (Debbie): I think you're definitely Lebanese. Sorry. Totally identify with what you're saying.
0:06:59 - (Derek): There you go. And, yeah, brand names and things like that. Stuff that we cannot afford. I hear of people skipping lunches, skipping lots of items just to get that particular handbag, that particular pair of shoes just to fit in. And it's never enough. All throughout I've been brought up where I think it's more so my nature. I'm a perfectionist trying to get things absolutely right. So to be able to open my mouth to say something, it takes a lot of guts because I need to get it absolutely right.
0:07:30 - (Derek): I played the piano growing up. I've got a diploma in piano and it just needed to be spot on. That pressure, that unwanted pressure wasn't really healthy for my mental health. And obviously it's built over going to Oxford. Different country, different set of cultures that took a bit of a juggling act. Coming over here with my wife to Adelaide and then to Sydney, it was the same thing. To find a job, to find something that I was really passionate about really took a toll on my mental health.
0:07:59 - (Derek): I did casual work and I depended on my wife back in Adelaide, that was really hard again, flowing into the whole idea of being a perfectionist. And the male ego takes a beating because here am I, my wife's going to work, I'm supposed to provide for my family. What would my in laws think about me now? My in laws are the best in laws in the world. They're super supportive, and even, till today, very supportive.
0:08:27 - (Derek): But that pressure, that unwanted pressure, came from nobody but myself. Maybe it's the things I've watched I immerse myself in. That unwanted pressure was not healthy. Speaking of New Year's resolutions, every year I ask myself, what have I done? And that comes to the fore. What have I done? Can I do better? Yes, of course I can do better. That self talk happens. What should I do? And I get a whole list out. I love lists, by the way. That's how I live my life.
0:08:54 - (Derek): But sometimes lists aren't good. Counselors would tell you, because you're so fixated on doing that, that you always think that you're not enough if you don't check off everything on that list or you leave out one. And I guess it flows on into New Year's resolutions. And I struggle because I would have read my bible more, spend more quiet time, get more proficient in public speaking, and then I fail.
0:09:18 - (Derek): Three months in, two months in, and I ask myself, why did I bother? But not just asking myself, why did I bother? I beat myself up emotionally. And that self talk, that negative self talk, really comes to the fore. I saw a counselor a couple of years back, and one of the things they said was, maybe you've done enough. Maybe you've tried your best. And I see you've said all of what you've said. In my opinion, that's good enough.
0:09:47 - (Derek): Maybe it's time for you to take a step back and enjoy the fruits of your labor. So that really stuck with me. But speaking of resolutions, it took a long time for me to realize how much pressure I put on myself and how it negatively impacted me. And not just me, the people around me that I really love right now. It's my wife and my three kids.
0:10:08 - (Debbie): Oh, Derek, thank you for sharing that. It's really powerful just hearing your journey and the experiences, the wealth of life experience that you've had. And what I'm hearing is that pressure during that end of year to do more when you've already done a lot, and that message of you are enough and you've done enough, and being able to find some peace in that and to celebrate all those incredible achievements I mean, you've lived in so many different countries and parts of the world and navigated different roles and different professions and very highly accomplished. And I'm feeling totally inadequate right now.
0:10:54 - (Debbie): I think it's incredible what you have achieved and just a reminder to our listeners in your vulnerability and your openness that we can be really harsh on ourselves. Even though the facts you've done a lot already and they're incredible things and they're highly accomplished things. But you're constantly looking for more, to do more and to be more and takes away from who you are already and what you have done already and being able to sit with that and to know that that is enough and enjoy that.
0:11:28 - (Eddie): I tell you what, Derek, I was sitting here watching, marveling as to the way you looked at yourself, the way you looked in the mirror and saw yourself and just watching the awareness that you had of what you've been through and how you've managed to get past it. Because a lot of times everybody thinks that they can achieve things and why they pick 1 January to say from here on, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. But the problem is they have the highest expectation of themselves.
0:12:00 - (Eddie): Sometimes it's unrealistic. And with high expectations comes high disappointment. And so a lot of people put so much importance on these resolutions that they have this sense of failure or shame if they can't commit to it or if it doesn't happen for them. And so what's left is just bitterness until the next year when they try again. But I think what's really important is the fact that you're aware of all.
0:12:35 - (Eddie): Know, sometimes, Derek, we're enough. Don't need anymore. We're enough. No matter what happens, there's enough of us. Your wife, you're enough for your wife, you're enough for your kids. And that's what counts. And so when you look forward in your life, I think it's important to see yourself as enough.
0:12:55 - (Derek): I think I read a quote somewhere and I'm not good giving quotes. Let's try this. Just be yourself. Everyone else is taken.
0:13:06 - (Debbie): I love that. That's awesome.
0:13:08 - (Eddie): Yeah, that's smart.
0:13:12 - (Debbie): Everyone else is taken. Yeah. Just being able to be yourself and to celebrate that and thinking about if we can reframe the new Year's resolution. It's a New Year's celebration of all you have achieved and all the things that you have accomplished. Make a list of that instead of lists of the things you want to do more. Whilst we always encourage self improvement and development. But sometimes when we're fixated on more, we end up with less because we lose sight of all the incredible things we already.
0:13:50 - (Debbie): I mean, you've just demonstrated mean, Derek. We've worked together for several months now, and you, to me, are incredibly humble and this quiet achiever that's there in the corner, just creating this incredible conversation that we have because you do. You develop that for us and you guide us, and you definitely do the lists. I've noticed that I might not always read the list. I'm sorry, I have to fess up.
0:14:18 - (Debbie): But, I mean, it's incredible the skills that you bring and as you talk about what you've done and the training that you have across different disciplines, and you really see that coming through in your work because you just bring this insight and experience and knowledge that doesn't just come from training. It comes from putting yourself out there and trying different things and taking those risks that you have taken to live in different countries and go from one profession to another. And I think that's just incredible.
0:14:48 - (Debbie): So I just want to acknowledge that and celebrate that with you because it comes through in all that you do and how you show up for us.
0:14:57 - (Derek): Thanks so much, Debbie. Eddie. Yeah, Nat, big honor just with our.
0:15:02 - (Debbie): Listeners, just being able to reflect on what Derek has shared so beautifully for yourself. Thinking about and exploring all that you've achieved in your journey in life and the big things and the little things and being able to, as you're thinking about resolutions, think about celebrations of you and thinking about reflecting on those at the end of the year. And I know we talk about humility and how important it is, but part of that is also recognizing, celebrating the gifts that we have and how we've used them in beautiful ways to influence not just ourselves, but others, whether it's our families or our peers and the people that we work with and the teams that we work with.
0:15:44 - (Debbie): Yes, humility is important, but also being able to recognize the strengths in ourselves and the things that we do and the contributions that we make every day. It's important because, like you said. What was that quote? Can you repeat it? I thought that was brilliant.
0:16:01 - (Derek): Just be yourself. Everyone else is taken.
0:16:04 - (Debbie): They are just trying to be present and celebrating yourself. So thank you, Derek. I really appreciate it. And I'm just going to warn you that this is going to happen again. Secrets out.
0:16:17 - (Derek): Very honored, Debbie.
0:16:18 - (Debbie): Yeah. Really great to have you with us. I hope this episode has helped you find sanctuary in this exciting journey of life. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are found in the podcast notes. If you need some assistance with any of the topics discussed in today's episode, then please visit our website, hshl.org au. You and your mental health matters to us, and we hope you get one step closer in finding sanctuary.
0:16:53 - (Debbie): Bye for now.